Matter - smart home connectivity standard (formerly Project CHIP)

at this point, @Automated_House guess of 5 years seems about right, it’s close to 3 years and I don’t see any of the promised devices.
Plus It’ll likely be buggy as hell, like the early ST days

The whole MATTER thing smells a bit like another proprietary, hard to acces, expensive to develop (think ZWAVE dev kits), regulated solution on top of and/or bridging with Silicon lab’s ZWAVE and the ZIGBEE hardware with those same characterstics by hijacking the THREAD protocol while keeping ZWAVE/ZIGBEE alive and happy.

That billion dollar companies pay almost the same as very small ones to certifiy a device goes beyond comprehension. Hopefully that changes once the standard is out and development can be done. Those high fees feel like ZIGBEE and ZWAVE folks are behind it.

Access to all MATTER specifics isn’t really needed to develop device. Companies like ESP, Nordic, STmicro etc… could provide a THREAD library for their controllers that has been PRE-CERTIFIED by MATTER and device builder can link against to send command/ get status against based on an open standard. I I think that is what was done with some other standards like Sub-1G and LORA etc (can’t recall). Matter could ask a small fee per device ID. and not again vendor ID’s per company, like USB. Define a generic 64 bit ID and apply one by one, that is much easier and avoid high costs for vendor ID’s. but all this would open the door for new entrants and that does not fit with the strategy of incumbents

Smart home is just a small subset of IoT. You can build a cloud to cloud solution with Alexa/Google/Smart-thtings app interfacing to custom made home devices via WIFI/wired networked at almost zero cost (except for personal investment in time) as the number of transactions per day are very few you don’t need low performance , very expensive hosted servers like those from AWS, Azure or Google. (I do have custom devices working with all those three home app vendors) Its’ not rocket science, but large companies like to make easy things difficult and create steep entry barriers…

I very much like what ST samsung has done supporting all the different ways to connect devices and a big shout out should be given for that… What I would like do to is develop MATTER devices that are connected by THREAD (via the ST Hub v3) or WIFI/wired LAN direct or indicrect via the hub without need of large investments in certifications or access to information. but what I read is that the v3 Hub won’t expose MATTER devices to a custom cloud.

MATTER should provide democratization so to say, access for everyone, like education. Let the large companies make money from their smart speakers and hubs and other large scale smart home infrastructure solutions, but please don’t impact the smaller home device makers.

I think MATTER will let consumers move their devices between platforms or pick one they like. What I don’t think it will solve will be interoperability between platforms. It doesn’t really solve consumer issues, but OEMs ones. Consumers might benefit from standardization if it makes it easier for OEMs to make devices. Once a consumer picks a platform they will probably stick with one out of ease and the difficulty of migrating off to another platform.

I’m guessing Samsung will use the cloud to run MATTER. They are pushing existing things they can out of the cloud. I’m guessing in part to create space for it to host next gen MATTER things in the cloud. Just a guess.

@Automated_House May know more, but one of the guiding principles of matter is “local first,“ meaning matter devices are supposed to run local unless there is some specific service that they need that requires the cloud.

From what I’ve heard, this will also be true for the smartthings implementation of matter.

For people who have a smartthings/Aeotec hub, I believe Matter it’s going to be implemented with edge drivers.

And Samsung has already announced that in the future both the Samsung smart refrigerator and Samsung smart televisions will act as a local controller for matter. Again, no hub needed.

I’m not sure exactly what’s going to happen for the people who don’t have a Samsung smart appliance or television and also don’t have a smartthings hub. :thinking:

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It will depend on how you define interoperability.

The big push came from Amazon who was tired of customers returning devices because they bought it and then it didn’t work with the home automation platform that they had. This was especially true for Wi-Fi devices, but others as well.

One of the most important things that matter will do is to standardize home automation messaging for Wi-Fi devices that comply with it. Right now, every single Wi-Fi switch brand has its messaging format, unless they’ve signed onto a third-party platform like Tuya. This creates a huge amount of work for Amazon and Google, and leaves out HomeKit altogether unless the device manufacturer goes through their unique process. And it’s also been true for smartthings. People buy Wi-Fi home automation devices all the time and then come to the forum because they can’t figure out how to make it work with smartthings.

The goal is for the matter logo to mean something: that buying a device with that logo will mean that it will work with your voice assistant of choice, and with your matter compatible app of choice. So you can go to Amazon, pick out a Wi-Fi smart plug with the matter logo, and know that it will show up in the smartthings app or the Apple home app or the Ikea Dirigera app or the Google home automation app. Or all of those at once. That’s way better for an individual customer than what we have now, again, as you can tell from questions that get posted to this forum every week.

You are, of course, correct that it’s not full interoperability because rules and scenes that you set up in one of those apps won’t show up in the others.

So it comes down to the details. But shopping should definitely get easier. :sunglasses:


Maybe we can host a Matter controller on a raspberry pi then. But, it’s probably going to be the mobile app and integrations that make the platform the differentiator. I don’t think consumers are going to identify compatibility by the protocol. It’s still going to rely on the it works with X platform to gain traction. Zigbee tried that and I think a bunch of devices on the packaging eventually dropped the labelling even if it supported it. You have to read the technical details online to see if it’s supported opposed to zwave or ble at the moment. Having it on one standard will make it easier for the masses for the problem you identified about compatibility.

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Correct, Matter only works on your LAN. So if the Matter controller want to expose the devices to the cloud, it needs some sort of local hub/bridge. SmartThings will have their hubs, 2022 TVs and supposedly Galaxy devices bridge the Matter devices to the SmartThings cloud. Apple will use Homepods or Apple TVs.


If for example I have a thread light that is matter compatible and connected to my apple tv, will it mean that my apple home will be able to control it but it will also show up in smartthings and smartthings will be able to control it also? once smartthings can support matter?

In this specific case, yes, once SmartThings supports Matter, as long as your Apple TV is model 4K or newer and has been updated to be a Thread Border Router. (Older Apple TV devices are not Thread Border routers.)

When buying a matter-compatible Thread device to add to ST, There are three scenarios to consider.

1, You Already have a Thread Border Router in Your Setup

This is your case if, as mentioned, your Apple TV is a Thread Border Router. :sunglasses:

It won’t automatically happen and SmartThings will need to have added Matter support but, yes, you should eventually be able to a matter-compatible Thread device to your SmartThings app. Eventually. :thinking:

The Thread Border Router could be an Aeotec hub or a Samsung smart refrigerator, once those models have been updated. Or you could have a TBR from some other matter-compatible device, like an Amazon Echo. Or in your case, an Apple TV 4K or newer.

2. You have SmartThings, but You don’t Have a Thread Border Router and Your New Light isn’t One

As we’ve mentioned upthread, Apple, IKEA, and possibly Google (still waiting on details for them) require customers to have a Thread Border Router device in the home before they can create automations in their apps, so their customers shouldn’t get confused.

Amazon is going to label its Echo models as Matter compatible or not: the ones that are will be Thread Border Routers. So a little bit of possible confusion, but the Matter logo will be the answer.

SmartThings, though, is going to identify their app as Matter-compliant BUT will not require a Thread Border Router in the home because you don’t have to have a hub. So someone who has, say, a Samsung robot vacuum will have to use the ST app to set it up, the app will have the Matter logo, but if they buy that Thread light you mentioned with a Matter logo, they still won’t have any way of adding it to their ST app. :disappointed_relieved:

My guess is the recommended solution will be to buy an Amazon Echo or Google Nest Hub or HomePod Mini which has the Matter logo—that would add a Thread Border Router to the home. But we will have to wait and see.

3. You Don’t Yet Have a TBR, But Your New Light is One

Oh, and some mains powered Thread devices, like Nanoleaf Elements, are themselves TBR’s, so no issue there. But battery-powered devices usually aren’t. And not all mains-powered devices are. :thinking: Again, the device probably won’t automatically add itself to your smartthings app, but you should be able to add it like any other matter-compatible device.


@Automated_House mentioned in another topic that Samsung has said some Galaxy phones will be Matter controllers. But as far as I know, not Thread Border Routers. So yet another opportunity for SmartThings customers to get confused about what the Matter logo means for their home. :thinking:

Also, not sure if it’s been mentioned here yet, but the new Ikea Dirigera hub will be a Thread Border Router.


Woo hoo!

Flic buttons will work with Matter-compatible devices as long as you have a Flic hub, and they are going to use a firmware update for existing Flic hubs. So very cool.

(Flic are already the only nonEcho brand buttons that can trigger an Alexa routine, and they also work with HomeKit. they invest a lot in integrations.)

This is exactly what matter is supposed to do: bring us a bunch of new integrations that just work. :sunglasses:

@jkp @automated_house


That’s good to see.

I’ve been interested in them but didn’t want another hub into the mix (says the guy with ST, HA, Hubitat, and an Echo zigbee hub all running at the moment :rofl:)

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I don’t want another hub either. But let’s see what happens later on. We need to move to bigger apartment in next 2-3 years anyway, maybe there’s room for more hubs. :smirk:

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I’m very curious how they had the Eve energy connected to SmartThings since its Bluetooth and Thread only. They said there was an Aeotec hub in the cabinet and no other Thread border router used. :thinking:

But Felber confirmed to me that the company was using an Aeotec-manufactured SmartThings Hub — that for some reason was hidden inside the table — to transmit the signal to the Eve Energy.

So either the booth person didn’t really know how the plug was connected to SmartThings or the ST Hub was acting as a Thread border router.

IMHO, it would have been a much better demo to have one Eve Thread outlet, with an Amazon Echo/Show, a Google/Nest Home Hub, an Apple HomePod, and a Smarthings App on mobile phone all connected at once to the same Thread/Matter network. That’s the promise of Matter, right? Multiple Matter controllers all working in harmony with the same Matter/Thread devices? My Philips Hue bridge can do it already with all of those ecosystems, as well as with Hubitat and Home Assistant. Same for my Lutron Caseta devices. :wink:

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My guess is they had the beta version of the hub that some of the Samsung partners have been given to start testing matter integration, and they are not allowed to display or discuss that publicly since it’s currently in private beta.

Eve is one of the “strategic partners“in that early access program, so that would make sense.




Google’s Google Home Developer Console, which helps developers add Matter devices to its smart home platform, also went live today.


DigiCert will be, according to their YouTube video, one of the first Matter PAAs (Product Attestation Authority) and trusted root for Matter companies. Seems to be a follow-up to their June 2022 press release.

As the global leader in digital trust, DigiCert was invited to help develop the PKI specification for the Matter protocol. To achieve this multi-manufacturer interoperability, the first step is creating shared roots of trust that are securely created and managed by appropriate parties like DigiCert. Once the trusted roots are created, issuing CAs that have been signed by these trusted roots are created and used to issue the trusted end entity, or device attestation, certificates. However, managing your certificate infrastructure will require robust capabilities for traceability, revocation and reporting. This is where we recommend a certificate management platform like DigiCert® IoT Device Manager.

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Stacey has two excellent “insider” articles on Matter protocol’s actual delivery versus expectations from the Silicon Lab’s Works With 2022 conference, plus a follow-up podcast episode:

The panel discussion (unfortunately still requires paid Si Labs registration):

KEYNOTE: Matter is (Almost) Here. Now What?


I lean more towards Kevin’s thoughts: for the average user, Matter 1.0 will solve a good bit of problems and as long as backwards compatibility is maintained, Matter 2.0+ will fix some shortcomings (e.g., missing device types / data attributes) and add in polish (e.g., recovery / repair / transfer).

But, I also empathize with Stacey: Matter 1.0 is targeted only to deliver the basics and it’ll remain a “backend” until at least 2.0, though that is what was initially promised, too: cross-platform devices, multi-voice assistant, local control, easy setup. Though concerning she mentioned “installation” might need device-specific apps? That’d break a central promise of Matter. Or did that mean “full” installation, e.g., for all the features that Matter mode won’t allow?

Will be carefully reading Matter device reviews and hopefully testing some devices: is it actually reliable? secure? easy to setup? local control? multiple admins?

I also have a thought if Matter 1.0 needs to to validate that it’s real and working to manufacturers and consumers, but also to push cautious consumers to start re-investing into smart homes (as I think a fair number may have paused / slowed purchases and all these multi-national companies don’t like that).