This is the nearest you will get to light switchesin the UK at the moment i reckon . . . The cheap option looks tacky but will essentially do the job and the nice ones are !!! Expensive !!! Both arnt traditional in apperance and im not sure how they would manage Dimmer manually . . .
Also not sure of they would need custom device types creating and wether they may already exist, may be something @slagle and the team could look at to assist uk customers if they prove popular enough or maybe a uk developer member on here
In order for the typical zwave or zigbee switch to have the power to hear the next āonā command from the network, most designs require three wire. Which most European/region homes donāt have. This is pretty much the whole reason LightwaveRF succeeds in the UK marketplace. The protocol they use doesnāt have this issue. (Neither does Lutron, btw.)
So the switches donāt exist because of the wiring/technology incompatibility, not because the manufacturers donāt know of the demand.
Iād like to see a LightwaveRF/SmartThings integration built instead ( by either company or a third party). Then the LRF switches could be used.
There are some community members doing this now with a hack but thereās several seconds lag.
If instead ST built an official LAN integration like theyāve done for
Philips Hue, it might solve a lot of problems. And fit the ST vision of open standards.
The LRF switches are widely available, fit UK regulations and aesthetics, and have a number of models. But right now thereās no integration with ST,
So to me, that would be the easiest solution. Although of course it would take a bit of time to implement.
@JDRoberts ive noticed a user on here who has managed to control his Lightwave RF devices via SmartThings but its all one way no state stuff ehich is what i guess you mean by bridge so its two way
Nice review on the more expensive solution on the above link here:
But Ā£90 ($150 ish) for a switch is a bit excessive !!!
As you said 3wire vs 2wire is the issue but i have seen mention of some things been a 2 wire install aswell as 3 . . . and also the above are for sale on a UK HA site . . . Either way the options must be there for a manufacturer to make a cracking set of products for the UK market (direct replacement style with zigbee / zwave built in) and theyād make a killing if they went in at the standard HA device price range of Ā£30-50
As for uk not having neutral wires im no electrician but im fairly sure we do or i mayyyyyy be wrong who know im tired and could be imagining things hahaha - i do however know that we lack Options
The UK has blue neutral wires but theyāre typically not available at the switch box.
When micro relays are used they are often moved to the place on the circuit where the third wire can be found.
Itās just easier in terms of control design if we can move the radio right to the switch itself.
So there is a lot of variation. But the easiest is a two wire networked switch, then it can just replace the existing non networked switch. Which is exactly what doesnāt work well with zwave/zigbee. Hence the popularity of LRF for switches and sockets.
Couldnt agree moreā¦ So next question do you have $1M to help me devlop a range of switches for the UK Automation Market hahahaha, we can call it " 2WireSmartAutomatedSmartThingsZwaveSwitches " (Working Title haha)
( The most current version of this information will now be maintained in the new UK lighting controls FAQ. As new devices are added you will find them at the following link:
Before we get too theoretical, I just wanted to do a quick recap of the options that are available right now for those in the UK.
1) choose one of the inside-the-wall micro relays from the official compatibility list and have it installed on the circuit where there is a third wire. Even if there isnāt a third wire in the switchbox itself, thereās still one on the circuit somewhere. It may be at the ceiling fitting, it may be somewhere else in the wall, but it is there.
If you want to add a new faceplate to create a push button āmomentary switch,ā you can modify many switches to work with the in wall relay.
For a high end, elegant faceplate, some community members choose the Legrand Adorne frontpiece to go with the in wall relay. You arenāt going to use most of the electronics from the Legrand, youāre going to connect their switch to the SmartThings-compatible zwave in wall relay instead. But the results can be fantastic. See the following topic for examples from one community member, including a video showing how to attach the faceplate to the relay.
Pros: you will have full control of whatever is on that circuit, itās officially supported by SmartThings, and it will make sense to visitors. There will still be a wall switch where there always was. If you add a Legrande adorne face plate, you will have a lot of very interesting styles to choose from.
Cons: it may require an electricianās help to figure out exactly where to put the relay on the circuit. Also depending on the other hardware and wires that are in the switchbox, some people find a need to replace the existing switch box that is in the wall with a deeper one to make room for the relay.
If you want to add a LeGrand face plate, you will have to do some modifications to it to get it to work with the relay. And the LeGrand devices are beautiful but expensive.
2) Use smart bulbs without a wall switch, and control instead with motion sensors, automated schedules, voice, mobile phone, and fully-integrated handheld remotes
This is a very popular European approach for Phillips hue bulbs, and it is worth considering. As long as the wall switch is always left on so that there is power to the bulb, you have a lot of choices about what you can do.
At my house, we mostly use voice. Many community members primarily use motion sensors to control the lighting.
Those with sophisticated design sense tend to really like the āmood cubeā which uses a SmartThings accelerometer (available in the UK multi sensor) inside a cube that you designed so that as the cube is turned in your hands, you switch to different light. Fun and practical. I happen to particularly like the design that @Pete built but there are several examples in the forums. This works great, itās just not a conventional wall switch.
The Aeon Labs minimote is probably the most popular handheld remote in the community, it comes in white or black. Fully integrateable with SmartThings. Small and modern. Widely available. But itās not a wall switch.
With any of these options, the old wall switch is just left always turned on. And you will have full control of any devices that are connected to SmartThings. But it can be confusing for visitors.
Pros: full control of all SmartThings connected devices, your old switches work fine in an emergency
Cons: leaving behind 20th century ideas of wall switches, visitors may be confused
3) 3 wire zwave switches with one button (if there is a blue neutral wire in the switchbox) There are some three wire Zwave switches that would probably work quite easily with SmartThings, such as MCO, TKBHome and Duwi. For a full remodel or new construction, these are worth considering. They are seen in some hotels and apartment buildings.
A paddle switch with only one button that is a Z wave certified device will probably work out of the box with SmartThings if you have the wiring to support it. A multi button switch may require custom code.
So this model most likely will work without needing custom code, but the two or four button version of the same switch may not. Single button models typically cost about ā¬40.
Pros: a wall switch that is a wall switch
Cons: requires three wires in the Switch-box, Some brands and models may require custom code to work with SmartThings.
4) Partial integration with lightwave RF
There are some members who have created a technical hack which provides a partial, and I want to emphasize partial, integration with existing lightWAVE RF switches. The lightwave RF switches can work in a two wire switch box. However, the solution that currently exists requires a great deal of technical skill to implement.
Pros: Choice of several models that look just like conventional UK switches
Cons: only a partial, and you have to run your own server. Also, there can be a noticeable lag between the time you flip the switch and the time the light goes on.
5) Phillips hue dimmer switch as a parallel means of control
Phillips has just released a new dimmer switch which is a small vertical four button device that can go on the wall or on the table. Sells for about ā¬20. It can control from 1 to 10 smart bulbs to go on and off in a group. Or one scene from the Phillips hue bridge. Amazon.co.uk was carrying it but now says it will not be back in stock until late November. This device does definitely exist, I have one, but they may be hard to find until early December.
This device does not integrate fully with SmartThings, it just allows you to control one set of bulbs with the physical button. There are community members trying to add more features to it, but thatās what we have right now.
Pros: inexpensive, intuitive, works well to control smart bulbs, no lag, good for guests and kids, battery operated so no wiring involved. Combines well with the options from point 2) above where the lighting is usually controlled through motion, voice, or schedules but adds a simple button switch as well.
Cons: cannot control any other kind of device, not fully integrated with SmartThings, maybe hard-to-find until December, May not match the decorating style.
If they use the standard switch protocol for z-wave then in theory the switch should pair as a generic z-wave switch and most if not all functionality should be there.
If it doesnāt follow the standard but it used standard clusters then a device type can easily be written.
If it uses nothing that is standard, welllllll shame on them.
I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.
First of all, certified Zwave devices do not have āclusters.ā Thatās a nonstandard SmartThings use of a zigbee term for their own platform.
Second, the SmartThings hub is a certified zwave controller at the ābasicā level.(another Z wave term).
There are several entirely standard zwave command sets that SmartThings does not support. Itās not required to, but the fact is that it doesnāt. Thatās why things like the handheld GE remote controls donāt work with it.
SmartThings also doesnāt handle multi endpoint devices well, a consistent issue that ends up requiring many different community-created device types. Again, this is a standard Z wave methodology. Many manufacturers use it. But when I see a single button Zwave switch, I feel quite confident that it will work with SmartThings out of the box.
When I see a switch that has two buttons, or four buttons, I have about 80% confidence that itās going to require a custom device type to get access to more than one of those buttons. Not because of anything the device manufacturer did.
And when I see āscene configurationā or āmultiple association groupsā listed as features of a certified Zwave device, I know itās going to require a custom device type.
The Perils of Multiple Protocols
Thatās because Zwave has an entire concept, ālighting scenes,ā which are not supported in the usual way in SmartThings.
I understand exactly why SmartThings made this decision. They wanted to be an open multi protocol platform. Lighting scenes as a concept are not handled identically in zigbee and in zwave.
SmartThings wants their customers to be able to use a a zigbee smart bulb in a table lamp and A zwave light switch on the wall and have everything work the same for them. And group them together to be controlled by a single motion sensor or button press on a minimote. Thatās a good thing in many ways, and gives us a lot of options that single protocol platforms do not have.
But it also means that lighting scenes cannot be implemented as they are for zwave, or they would only be able to include Zwave devices, which have built-in features to support them.
Zwave Wants to be Distinct from Zigbee
However, whilst SmartThings was going in this direction, the Zwave alliance was going in a different direction. They were adding more and more unique features to their protocol. They want to be different than zigbee. They want certified zwave devices to work differently than zigbee devices in the home. So they have added additional scene command sets. And the device manufacturers scoop them up. Weāre seeing more and more multibutton lighting controls. With multiple associations. And a big emphasis on ācentral sceneā controls.
Some of these new devices can be made to work with SmartThings quite easily. Some can be made to work after some considerable effort on the part of those doing custom code. Some cannot be made to work in the way in which manufacturers intended.
This is important information for the community. I know most people do not share my level of interest in the protocols or the nitty-gritty of how devices are designed to take advantage of the differences between protocols. For most people, a light switch is a light switch.
And if that light switch has a single binary on/off button and is a certified Zwave device, I am quite sure it will work with SmartThings.
However, there are fewer and fewer of those being made. All the additional features that manufacturers are adding, the long press, the multi button press, multiple buttons on one device, etc. are all standard zwave features now. But they do not necessarily line up with SmartThingsā concept of āa light switch is a light switchā regardless of its protocol.
Not sure about the Hue dimmer switch - but only just seen this thread.
This was the exact issue I had when I first started using Smartthings (UK as well). The Solution I found was to us Z Wave.meās wireless wall switches. They are awesome and can be fitted with loads of different faceplates and buttons in plastic, metal and glass. See here a selection of various finishes that Iāve used:
I created a device type and app (below) that can be used to make these control whatever you want.
For UK plug sockets - itās not an easy solution but you can use the Fibaro Relay 2 x 1.5Kw to make these part of your automation system (or just use the smartthings plug socket if you donāt mind the budge)
@AdamV Where are you getting them from in the UK? I see their website only has a few options and most arent marked being suitable for UK. Also how far do they stick out?
Iād love just a simple,single button, battery operated switch I could āstickā over the top of my normal light switchesā¦problem solved.
You can use it as a parallel means of control. That is, link SmartThings to your Hue bridge through the official integration, and add the dimmer switch to the hue bridge as well through the normal Phillips method.
You can now control the hue lights through SmartThings automations, or you can use the Hue dimmer switch to control the hue lights.
SmartThings doesnāt know that the Hue dimmer switch exists in this set up, and will take about five minutes to realize that the bulb statuses have changed when the dimmer switch is used, but it can still be practical for many households.
This is what we do at my house. We have a dimmer switch in the guestroom to provide intuitive control of those lights.
Some people have been able to get SmartThings to recognize the dimmer switch itself, but so far it will not stay paired for more than a day or so, so that is still a work in progress.
You can get them in loads of places - try Vesternet or Amazon
They are unbelievably slim - essentially the thickness is only the thickness of the faceplate and rocker switches that you buy with them
If you want to put them over your current light switches, rather than replacing them altogether - check out @TallNHairyDaveās project do exactly that - heās made a special cover for UK boxes that can be 3D printed very cheaply - all details on his thread
Different people try different things. More discussion in the following thread:
At our house, we wanted to make sure that there was still a switch available even if the home automation system was not working. So we use child safety locks on the existing switches. The switch is still available in an emergency, it just serves as a reminder to others not to use it most of the time. And then, as I mentioned, we use parallel means of control with the inexpensive Hue dimmer switches in a few places.
I like the look of the devolo battery switch a lot, and with Adamās device handler itās another good option for us, and I may add some in the future. At our house again I would be more likely to leave the original switch in place with a child lock and put the devolo next to it on the wall. Different things work for different households. We have many different people coming in and out all the time, so I need the emergency solutions to be obvious.
ehich is what i guess you mean by bridge so its two way
