Homekit and SmartThings: The Latest Discussion

[JDRoberts]

Homekit Compatibility Requirements

Originally SmartThings intended to be HomeKit-compatible, as did many other companies, but in March 2015 Apple clarified that any device that would be compatible with HomeKit had to have a particular encryption chip inside it. And for security reasons they also put limitations on some of the other features the device could provide.

So SmartThings, along with many other companies, decided not to sign up for HomeKit compatibility at the present time. The SmartThings hub that you bought will never officially work with HomeKit. It’s possible that some future SmartThings version might include HomeKit compatibility, but no plans at the present. So if you Google anything about compatibility, make sure it’s dated after March 2015.

So why SmartThings?

As for why you might want something like SmartThings in addition to HomeKit it’s because, as announced at WWDC 2016, HomeKit apparently is going for a fairly limited feature set. Lights, HVAC, locks, garage door control. All through either Siri or the new home app.

What’s missing? The most obvious is sensors that can trigger other events. For example, even though the HomeKit page mentioned this in one of the examples, it is not presently possible to have a battery-powered motion sensor trigger a light to come on in HomeKit. There is a Contact sensor where you can open the app and see how many times it was triggered that day, but you can’t get a notification when it’s triggered or have anything else happen like a siren go off or again lights come on.

(I know the screenshots make it look like this can happen, but it can’t. At least not so far. There’s a motion sensor associated with the echobee thermostat, but it only reports every 15 minutes.)

There is also no IFTTT integration, and not likely to ever be because of Apple’s security rules.

And as yet there’s no clear way do to add control of entertainment devices to your home automation rules. That could change. But SmartThings has it now through the harmony integration.

And the HomeKit rules engine is very simple. Basically your only available triggers are geopresence, time of day, and some HVAC values like thermostat setting.

In contrast, a full-featured system like SmartThings could let you have a rule like: if it’s after eight at night and John has been home for at least 20 minutes but Charlie is not home and it’s dark outside and someone is sitting on the couch in the living room turn on the speakers to level 10 and turn on the TV to ESPN.

Or notify me if it’s after 8 pm and the dog has not been fed twice today.

Or if I’m home and the Christmas tree pot is less than half full of water, turn off the tree lights, run water for 5 minutes (or until the pot is full) and then turn off the pump and turn the lights back on.

HomeKit can do some of that. But not all of it. (And I’m not saying it’s easy to do that with SmartThings, but it is possible.)

Smarter Home, not Smart Home

In short, HomeKit on its own will give you a smarter home in the sense that you will replace some of your existing devices like light switches and an air conditioner with a smarter device of the same type. Smarter meaning you can put it on time schedules and you can use your presence to have things automatically happen when you leave or arrive.

Full-featured systems like SmartThings are intended to give you a smart home. You will buy some devices you wouldn’t have had otherwise, mostly sensors, and those will allow you to set up multi level conditionals for complex rules.

Different people want different things

Do you need a full featured system? Only you can say. It’s likely that Apple will continue to add more device classes over time. But I think it’s going to be awhile before they have really complex logic. They want to keep it simple because they want to make theirs a mass market “set and forget” product.

I have HomeKit devices now, I like them, I intend to get more in the fall. But I also don’t need really complicated logic. Time schedules, Geopresence, and voice control will meet many of my household needs. But I still want battery-operated motion sensors to control the lights, and so far it looks like I’m going to need a second system just for that feature.

[desertblade (Ben W)]

@JDRoberts

for security reasons

I am 100% sure its for “security” reasons.

[LordGrass (Mike)]

That’s why I went with Smartthings, and will be hard pressed to leave for HomeKit. I also like Apple products, but there is just too many toys to play with on Smartthings and I don’t see Apple having as many compatible products anytime soon. I guess only time will tell.

[pizzinini]

There is a community provided solution for integrating Smartthings into Homekit. I have been using it for over a year now without any significant issues. I found it works best for rooms, zones and scenes.

[OBSOLETE] Hello, Home HomeKit (and Siri!) control via homebridge

The easiest way to set this up is probably with a raspberry pi (sounds very scary and complicated at first but it turns out to actually be quite easy after some initial trial and error if you follow instructions) Here is the hardware you will probably need (all available on Amazon for a total of ~$60): Raspberry Pi 3 Model B Motherboard Mini-UBS power adapter (e.g. CanaKit 5V 2.5A Raspberry Pi 3 Power Supply) Micro CD memory card (e.g. SanDisk Ultra 16GB) Optional: Case for raspberry pi (e.g. Raspberry Pi 3 case, KuGi ® Raspberry Pi 3 Model B case) iOs device with a free app (e.g. Elgato Eve or iDevices) to set up Homekit and use Siri (you said you you have this already) Go here for initial instruction on how to set up the raspberry pi: Once the raspberry Pi is setup, click on the…

[QuickSilver]

Thank you for this very detailed response.

After reading it last night I went ahead and cracked open the box and set it up.

Being my first home automation attempt, it seems okay and I got notifications and stuff.

I ordered couple of Home kit switches and downloaded Homekit Beta so I’ll play with the two.

Again, thank you very much.

[JDRoberts]

And this is why Apple has added security cameras (including video doorbells) as a new device category for HomeKit at the same time that they’re adding Home app.

They’re ready for HomeKit to start justifying the purchase of additional hardware, specifically iPads (for Wall-mount home automation controllers) and Apple watches (for both Siri voice control and notifications). Including photo notifications from Cameras,

Apple chose the integrated camera feature over battery-operated motion sensors for the fall release event. At first I thought it was just for simplicity’s sake, but now I’m thinking it’s because the video features definitely make nice marketing use cases.

[pizzinini]

I have an Apple Watch and would love to see something like this work. Right now it usually takes me about 30 sec to load new info like news… Not sure people at the door would wait that long
Maybe there is a new magic watch OS update.

[JDRoberts]

OK, it’s official. With the release of iOS 10 beta 4, Home is now prominently featured in the control center splash page when you first start control center.

If they stick with this for the final release, I think this fall is the time when Apple ties it all together and starts using HomeKit to sell watches and iPads. We’ll see. They have to get a couple of HomeKit-compatible cameras out first.

[JH1 (Never Trust @bamarayne)]

If Apple can make this happen, given the current absence of any confidence ST’s leadership can remove their cranium from their posterior, this may be my first foray into apple products on a personal level.

[JDRoberts]

@JH1

If Apple can make this happen…, this may be my first foray into apple products on a personal level.

I really like HomeKit so far, and I think the new home app In IOS 10 is going to be a big improvement. And enabling an iPad to be a wallmount dashboard as well as a Siri voice controller is really nice.

Two things to keep in mind.

First, while there is a built-in rules engine, and it’s intuitive and easily discoverable, it’s really basic. No Ors or XOR’s. No stacked conditions. No virtual devices.

Second, there still aren’t any battery-powered motion sensors or contact sensors that can act as triggers. There are cameras that have motion sensors but nothing like the iris line. So you have to rethink your solutions for a lot of use cases.

But it does work great, and locally, with the Phillips hue bridge, Lutron switches, some pocket sockets, a couple of door locks, and the ecobee thermostat. Some cameras and video doorbells have been announced and are supposed to be arriving in time for Christmas. Not sure if they’ll make that timeline.

You need the cloud for Siri voice processing, but that’s always true.

Anyway, as always, different things work for different people. I still prefer echo voice processing to Siri, but the Phillips hue bridge and the Lutron Caseta switches work with both echo and Siri.

So if your use cases are simple and you don’t need motion sensor triggers, HomeKit may be a good solution. It’s very reliable. But it’s a much more limited set of devices and features than SmartThings offers, even with the iOS 10 upgrades.

If you already have Apple devices, trying HomeKit is a no-brainer. But if you don’t, you might want to wait to see what Google home delivers.

[CR76]

As the dust begins to settle on the iPhone 7 reveal and the roll out of Home with iOS 10 imminent what do we see as the current state of Home. I found it very telling that Tim Cook paused momentarily to focus on home when giving a quick reminder of iOS 10 features. There announcement of partners for the platform was also impressive.

I still do not see the benefits of this over ST however unless apple has some kind of hub in the works.

Would be great to hear what the community thinks?

[Macklemonster]

Actually, with iOS 10, both the AppleTV and the iPad can be used as hubs for automation and remote (outside the home) control. In fact I believe you need one or the other to use the Automation.

Note, I’m using Homebridge on a raspberry PI to have all my Z-Wave SmartThings devices available via HomeKit (and in the iOS Home app). Very cool and works well.

[ehoffman73 (Eric)]

Can you tell me a bit more? Home bridge? I know raspberry pi (can figure out where to buy one)…so ST AND Home can run any zwave device connected to ST?

Was looking for the Home app on iOS 9, must only be 10. Being in the ecosystem, and learning to temper my automation to really solid use cases rather than the “what if I could”…I am interested in playing with HomeKit a bit. I don’t think I will transition fully (except for the continual screw ups at ST, like minimotes dying today…but then again, they are an option to use, so cool!)

[Macklemonster]

Yes the “Home” app is only in iOS 10. Here is the info for Homebridge: https://github.com/nfarina/homebridge

Takes a bit of fiddling, but all good once you figure it out…

[JDRoberts]

As others have said, both an iPad or an Apple TV three or four. Can be used as a hub, but you don’t need one.

My experience: limited features, but very low maintenance. And it’s local.

I’ve been using HomeKit for about a year for some things and I’m quite happy with it. I’ve looked at the beta for the new home app which will be out at the end of the month and that does bring additional improvements. It’s just important to understand that HomeKit is a limited feature system. Very simplistic compared to something like SmartThings or Vera. But it is reliable and does what it does well. The voice control with Siri is not as good as the voice control is echo, but many of the devices work with both and I use both.

Everything runs locally over your local Wi-Fi except for Siri which has always been cloud-based.

Of course if you are away from home and want to do something you will be using the Internet for that which is what the iPad or Apple TV do for you. The iPad also becomes a really nice wall mount dashboard if you want one.

The main thing is don’t think of it As a full feature home automation system like SmartThings. It just isn’t that. It’s much more like just having the hue bridge but being able to add a few more device classes and then get notifications on your Apple Watch or phone or iPad.

Lots of pleasant surprises

If you look upthread you’ll see some of the screenshots from the new home app, and it is nice. It’s also one of those Apple things where it’s even nicer when you use it then when you just look at the pictures because most things are very intuitive and there’s a lot of selecting an item and suddenly you get a bunch more details exactly when you want them.

but some big missing pieces

The biggest missing piece has been that there are no HomeKit certified battery operated sensors that can trigger other events. There’s an open/close sensor but you have to literally open the app to see when it last closed. You can’t have it opening do something else.

Hue is releasing a very nice new Motion sensor in October which will solve that for Hue bulbs, but it’s just not known yet whether it could also trigger, say, Lutron light switches. We’ll just have to wait to see.

some features most other systems don’t have

It was clearly designed from the point of view of solutions rather than features. With the exception of the battery operated sensors (where I think they just ran into a power problem) you find that there aren’t that many features but the solutions give you more than with many other systems.

For example, you can use Siri to change the colors on Hue bulbs, something you can’t do with echo.

You can ask for the status of most devices including “are all doors locked?”

You organize your devices into rooms and zones and once you do that you can automatically ask about things in a room without having had to tag them. This is hard to explain until you’re actually using it, but it’s a really nice feature.

Because HomeKit knows in advance what every device versus device class is, it already knows that a new device is a light or lock or whatever. So once you add a new light to the kitchen you can then say “turn on the kitchen lights” and the new device is already in that group. Again, it’s hard to give examples that explain how useful this is an every day life, but it really is nice. A lot of people when they first look at it think that homekit doesn’t have groups but it actually has groups baked in in a way that I haven’t seen any other system do.

Routines use natural language which again is just way nicer than you think it’s going to be until you’re using it every day. So you just say “Hey Siri, I’m home” or “hey Siri, good night,” and then those routines run.

Home automation is based on a very simple IFTTT format Except that you get a couple of extra “ands” on the IF side and that can include multiple devices . But no “ors,” “xors,” “nots,” or “while’s.”

You can’t create a rule that says “turn on the hallway light i get home but only if the living room light isn’t already on.”

You can create a rule which stacks time of day and geopresence like "turn on the hallway light when I get home after 6 PM. "

But again, it’s very simple.

On the other hand, it’s also easy to understand. For one thing, you define the if before the that.

But mostly… It works. I set up one device almost a year ago and since the day we set it up it’s required zero maintenance. None for the device, none for the rules.

But again, very very simple rules.

So we’re using HomeKit for pretty much everything we can use it for, but there are still a lot of blanks we have to fill in with other systems. And I expect that to continue to be true.

[JDRoberts]

As for “home bridge”…

The official Hue simulator

Phillips hue wanted to give third party developers a way to work on their apps without having to buy a bunch of devices. So they created a really sophisticated simulation system.

It is a violation of the Phillips hue developers license to use that simulated bridge for anything else, and specifically it is a violation to use it to make a non-Hue device appear to be a Hue device in a production system.

But almost immediately people started doing exactly that.

Initially the bridge simulator was used to allow integration with home automation systems that had a Hue integration but not an integration with other devices. By fooling the controller into thinking it was talking to Hue bridge, you got instant integration which then could be captured on a processor, usually raspberry pi, and translated into instructions for all kinds of devices.

Enter Homekit

Then came the HomeKit certified Hue bridge. And people found that the same simulator could be used to fool HomeKit into thinking it was talking to a Hue bridge when it was actually talking to a raspberry pi pretending to be a hue bridge.

Again, total violation of the Phillips hue developer terms of service where the bridge simulator code was released, but once it was out on the Internet people three or four levels away who had never signed that TOS were getting access to the simulator code.

One of these implementations was called “homebridge,” for HomeKit enabled Phillips hue bridge simulation.

I didn’t know the car was stolen

If you use one of these, it’s basically the same as receiving a stolen car as a gift. You probably didn’t break the law intentionally or directly. But there’s always a possibility that someone’s going to show up and take the car away at any time, and you won’t have any right of complaint because it was stolen to begin with.

So that’s what “homebridge” is.

[jefo13 (JF)]

My home is pretty much all Apple EcoSystem, music, photos, media etc… However of course, the home automation is on Smartthings with 40+ devices…

I am extremely attracted to the opportunity to integrate my home automation to HomeKit, and for now it seems like this is only doable with Pi servers or above my level coding. Is anyone considering migrating to HomeKit compatible home? Has anyone done it? OR Is there an effort to integrate the ST Hub with HomeKit and make us happy? (doubt it since Samsung bought ST)

Thanks

[JDRoberts]

Every system has pluses and minuses. I’ve used HomeKit for some things for about a year and like it because it’s very reliable, but it’s also very simple in its logic and there are a limited number of devices. (At the present time, for example, there are no battery operated motion sensors although Phillips has one announced for next month that will work with its lights but may not work with anything else.) I looked at the new home app in beta and like that also, it’s definitely an improvement – – but still very simple rules compared to what is possible with SmartThings.

Like many companies, SmartThings was originally interested in adding HomeKit integration, but then when the requirements were clarified in March 2015 and included adding a new encryption chip meaning that existing devices could not be upgraded for HomeKit integration (this is why Phillips had to release a new version of the hue bridge in the fall of 2015) they decided to wait and see how much market demand there was for it.

You’ll find detailed discussion of HomeKit and smartthings in the following thread:

Homekit and SmartThings: The Latest Discussion

Can you tell us if the new hub supports HomeKit?

[whoismoses (Eric)]

Let me start by making two statements…

1 - I am a huge apple user. Phone, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, 2 iMacs (All active between work and home).

2 - I haven’t spent a lot of time looking into Homekit.

I don’t believe homekit supports anything but network (wifi) devices. I could be wrong. Also, apple seems to be more about controlling your home with your phone and siri. I want my home to respond to me 85% of the time, not have me controlling it. I have little interest in homekit.

[JDRoberts]

@whoismoses

Let me start by making two statements…

1 - I am a huge apple user. Phone, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, 2 iMacs (All active between work and home).

2 - I haven’t spent a lot of time looking into Homekit.

I don’t believe homekit supports anything but network (wifi) devices. I could be wrong. Also, apple seems to be more about controlling your home with your phone and siri. I want my home to respond to me 85% of the time, not have me controlling it. I have little interest in homekit.

1. You’re right: you’re wrong.

2. See the existing discussion thread for more details. ( screenshots and everything.) There is automation available, not just control, but again details in the other thread.