Does ST work? My perspective

[JH1 (Never Trust @bamarayne)]

@schettj

the only way remote access can work is if the cloud has a current view of the state of the home metadata, which means the home metadata is always updated in the cloud when it changes at home - that’s gonna be true for Home Kit, unless you’re going to query the home every time the remote device hits the cloud (fine if you have 3 devices, not great if there’s 50-200)

That is not the case. I agree, cloud components are great to have for remote access - to establish connections, determine addresses on both sides, etc, but they are absolutely NOT required for remote access.

You mentioned ISP firewalls earlier. Okay, I don’t know of any that block the type of connections we are talking about - but it does not matter. ISP firewalls are NOT preventing ST cloud based systems from controlling the hubs today. So the same can be true for a completely "CLOUDLESS’ solution if you will. Your phone is IN THE CLOUD if you will.

So the hub can open an outbound connection to that phone, if these firewalls you speak of are preventing the phone from sending the syn packet to the hub. Then once the hub has initiated that outbound connection the TCP communciation is two ways. So wha-la, you have control from your phone.

It’s splitting hairs at this point, because I don’t care if a cloud component is involved in proxying my connection or not - as long as it an OPTIONAL ENHANCEMENT or I can privatize it if I wish. The real issue is cloud processing anyway.

But, I don’t want to let the idea stand that cloud components are an absolute requirement - because that is emphatically incorrect and frankly it bothers me that so many folks seem to believe in mythical powers of “cloud”. Again, Cloud is just computers connected to a network. Nothing more, nothing less.

[schettj (John S)]

@JH1

That is not the case. I agree, cloud components are great to have for remote access - to establish connections, determine addresses on both sides, etc, but they are absolutely NOT required for remote access

Well, we can disagree here. However, I will remind you we’re not talking about US here (you know, people who work in the industry, running actual data centers, with 30+ years of experience in computer-related fields, strong network engineering backgrounds, etc) we’re talking about the general population running their Hubs behind ISP-provided routers (say, oh, Comcast) which, IF WE’RE LUCKY support upnp for opening firewall ports, but even so who’s very TOS/AUP disallow running “network services” on residential internet connections.

Now, how’s my Mom supposed to get that inbound access up and running so she can check on her house when she’s at the sewing circle again?

In that case, she’s gonna need “The Cloud” (a service running in a data center, or aws, or wherever the heck it’s cheapest to run, with failover to that 2nd data center, etc, etc, we’re all network engineers here blah blah… so much simpler to say The Cloud, isn’t it) to FRONT for her. So her hub can connect OUT over http (never blocked) to the service running OUT THERE… and so on.

The SAME issue exists for your phone. AT&T isn’t letting any old inbound connection to your phone, whatever it’s IPv4/6 address is this day. It’s just not happening.

SOMETHING sits in the middle, because all these end-user devices are, by definition, CLIENT devices. So you end up with (HOME Client) → (Magic Happens Here) ← (MOBILE Client). The Magic? We call it “The Cloud” because all that technical mumbo jumbo of IP addresses and ports just washes over most folks.

You and I, sure, we could set up our own servers out there (like mine, http://schettino.us, a Linux vps where I host my blog, run my email server, and do other fun things IN THE CLOUD) but most people won’t. Ever.

Something in the middle is required for two clients to talk to each other. Some network service. Running out there. In the Cloud.

[geko]

@JH1

I don’t care if a cloud component is involved in proxying my connection or not - as long as it an OPTIONAL ENHANCEMENT or I can privatize it if I wish. The real issue is cloud processing anyway.

Exactly, this! Vera, for example, combines local control (no Internet required) with fully functioning remote access through the “cloud”, without a need to punch a hole in the firewall. But their “cloud” does not do any event processing or any such nonsense. It’s strictly for remote control, and it is optional. Same goes for Staples Connect. So, yes, it can bet done, and no, this is not what SmartThings is doing with their “local control”.