Any Z-Wave Thermostat?

[JDRoberts]

I use the typical definition of scenes, both zigbee and zwave use it. Network Engineering 101. The terminology may be slightly different, but essentially

One button can cause multiple different actions to occur at about the same time on different devices with different parameters being sent to each device. (Note that this is different from sending the same command to every device but having it cause different actions just because of the device type.)

Usually there’s a schedule table as well.

In full option scenes, which zwave offers, you can send any command with all the parameters supported by the receiving device.

Zigbee is different because there are different types of scenes (like colour vs noncolour) and not all device types support scenes. So zigbee right now offers limited option, limited device scenes. I don’t know what’s going to happen in zigbee 3.0

[JDRoberts]

@jwindsurfer

Well, this is all good stuff to know. This was what I was not clear about. I think that any device that is fully Z-Wave compatible and well made can be made to be supported by writing your own driver, or smart app or whatever. And I’ve only just ordered my stuff, so will delve into that further. Worse comes to worse, I’ll have only spent $100 on the hub. As always, I’ve got big plans

Common assumption, but not how the ST hub actually works at present. Some stuff is just missing, which is why some older GE handheld remotes and keypads can never be made to work with the ST v1 hub unless the remote is initialized by a different hub like Vera first. You can’t code your way around it. Search the forum for the 45631, you’ll find lots of discussion.

[tgauchat (ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)]

@JDRoberts

I use the typical definition of scenes, both zigbee and zwave use it…

To the best of my knowledge, this can be “easily” implemented with a SmartApp (and perhaps some Virtual Devices to trigger and/or hold scene state data if necessary).

Ref: Scene Machine as a pretty good Proof of Concept.

Reference this thread that I rather dislike because too many participants dismiss “Scenes” as unnecessary in SmartThings, smh.

But you know of this thread already since you’ve participated extensively…

Are there scenes?

Greetings! I’m a brand new Smartthings user, but I’ve used home automation devices for about 15 years. In the case of Smartthings, I think that’s more of a hindrance than a benefit, because it looks like Smartthings is designed very differently from any of the solutions I’ve used before. Anyway, here’s my basic question, which for some reason I just can’t figure out: how do I set up a “scene?” I don’t know if ST calls them something else, but I’m coming from using Vera, where everything was pretty much divided into devices and scenes. This is limiting in some ways but exactly what I need in others. Most of the time, I don’t actually want my automation solution to think too much for me. Sometimes I just want to be able to hit a button and have all the lights in a room turn on to preset dim…

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So, in Summary…

Without taking this Topic on a further tangent (we can, however, start a new Topic if desired for discussion…):

1. SmartThings should not imply they are “fully” or comprehensively Z-Wave compatible, unless “partial compatibility” is de facto in the industry and marketing materials across Z-Wave products.

2. SmartThings should improve their “Works With SmartThings” web page (NB: pre-sales web page!) to clearly distinguish “full supported devices” vs. those that are partially supported, in development, in Beta, Labs, etc… I think the hover “i” indicator is insufficient, but, well, at least it’s there.

3. Given #1 (i.e., SmartThings is not and may never be a fully Z-Wave (or ZigBee?) compliant / compatible system), Customer and Developers should never expect the Z-Wave and/or ZigBee definition of “Scenes” to be implemented. This should be made clear pre-sale as well. However, many of the elements of those standard definitions of “Scenes” can be emulated without any platform architecture changes (i.e., can be implemented with only SmartApps and/or Virtual Scene Devices). It would be interesting to explore, confirm, and document the exact aspects of “Scenes” that can be implemented in ST (i.e., the minimal incremental feature request), and then compare this implementation of “Scenes” bullet-by-bullet with the Z-Wave and ZigBee standards, and any other applicable similar standards (Lutron?).

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I hope my Summary is accurate, but respectfully suggest we spin off to a New Topic for further discussion, and/or move to an existing applicable Topic.

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[tgauchat (ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)]

@JDRoberts

Common assumption, but not how the ST hub actually works at present.

BINGO!

@jwindsurfer –
I strongly suggest that you & everyone assume the device of your choice will NOT work with SmartThings unless it is in the officially supported list, and observe the footnotes as well. (And, see related discussion that I think this list could be more accurate too).

http://www.smartthings.com/product/works-with-smartthings/

[tgauchat (ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)]

@vitamincm

Scene control would be great as well as plug and play.

Come on over and join the new Topic / Conversation…

Plug and Play vs can be made to work with custom code

Continuing the discussion from Any Z-Wave Thermostat?: Spinning off… I like what you’ve said in your summary above. But until all I have to do is hit one INSTALL button in the mobile app, i don’t count it as plug and play. I also think the “I” on the “works with” list is insufficient because it mixes good stuff (is a repeater) with bad stuff (only some functions are supported) with beta indications (labs). these need three different icons.

[geko]

@JDRoberts

at present the ST hub is not a certified zwave device, so it falls into the “works with zwave” category.

I’m not sure what you meant by ‘certified’ in this context, but just to set the record straight, SmartThings hub is an officially certified Z-Wave product. Its certification number is ZC08-13080013.

http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/878

@JDRoberts

Some stuff is just missing, which is why some older GE handheld remotes and keypads can never be made to work with the ST v1 hub

Just for clarification, Z-Wave certification does not require device to implement every Z-Wave command and feature imaginable. It only requires device to implement what Z-Wave calls mandatory commands for a particular device class.

Smart Things hub is a certified Generic Static Controller and as such, must implement only Basic Command Class. That’s ALL! Of course, it implements more than that (the full command list is in the Certificate), but the “missing” Controller Replication command class is not of them.

Bottom line, Z-Wave certification does not require controller to implement replication. We can argue whether it’s good or bad, but it certainly does not make Smart Things hub non-compliant with Z-Wave specification.

[JDRoberts]

Thanks for the correction!

You’re quite right, the ST hub is zwave certified as a generic static controller at the Basic level, but as such it supports fewer than 20 command classes, as compared to the typical 25 or so from the competition.

ST
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/878/embedpics

Vera lite:
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1005/embedpics

Staples Connect DLINK

http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1145/embedpics

But then the Wink is the same set as ST, so at least they’re not the only ones at that level.

I’m curious, though, the conformance statement doesn’t show schedule entry lock on ST’s conformance statement, but the ST developer doc says it’s supported. So I’m guessing things have been added since certification testing?

Also is the meter class supported?

Thanks, and apologies again for previous misstatements, I’ll clear those up over the next day or two.