Amazon Key - Lock Compatibility, etc


(Never Trust @bamarayne) #1

Up for discussion is Amazon Prime’s Amazon Key Service.

The service allows Amazon deliveries to be made inside your door when you aren’t home. Requires a Amazon Key compatible lock and a Amazon Key camera for monitoring.

Question: Any of these locks also compatible with SmartThings?

I already have one of these locks, store bought version, that works with SmartThings but these may have different electronics and not compatible with SmartThings.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KCYQGXE?locationCheckInvoked=1


(jkp) #2

(Andy - United Kingdom) #3

Unless you have a double door i.e. Lockable porch I would be seriously concerned about giving a delivery driver access

This kind of thing might be alright for a lockable box but no way I would allow unsupervised access to my home


#4

It’s unlikely that you already have one of the specific models that works with the service as they aren’t being released for about two weeks. You may have one that has the same exterior case, but it won’t work.

The only ones that will work are the zigbee models (not zwave) that will work with the new echo plus and that have specific firmware for this new service.

https://www.amazon.com/b/?node=17295887011

They are called the “Amazon key edition”

https://www.amazon.com/Yale-Assure-Touchscreen-Polished-YRD226AZ/dp/B0731D1F6D/

Notes: Amazon Key requires the Yale Assure Lock Amazon Key Edition and compatible camera

You could contact the manufacturer and see if you could buy just the “Amazon Key” zigbee module and swap it out for the module that you have.


(Never Trust @bamarayne) #5

Sure, but are those compatible with SmartThings?

Does this require an Echo at your house as well?


#6

No idea yet on SmartThings compatibility, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to require an echo.


#7

Hmmm… A friend of mine thinks the locks also have an NFC or Bluetooth reader because the driver has to put their scanner next to the lock for ID purposes. In that case you would have to get a whole new lock, it’s not just the zigbee module that’s different.

Also note:

Amazon Key is not integrated with home security systems. On the day of delivery, you will need to disarm your home security alarm. We do not recommend using in-home delivery if you are not comfortable disarming your security system on delivery day.


(Never Trust @bamarayne) #8

Not sure about that…

“Keep your existing deadbolt
Install a smart lock over your current deadbolt and keep your current set of keys. Your exterior lock remains the same. Guests can enter with a unique code. Kwikset Convert”

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072NCJTNG

Either way, the point about having to disable your security system is also huge.

Now again, if the activation had proper ties to home automation and one could set off a event that when the Amazon Key was used, it disabled certain sensors - motion, door, etc in that area for a period of time, then that’s doable. Just leaving your entire system disabled for a delivery day which could get delayed? Come on now.


#9

Not sure about what? That there’s a reader in it?

There’s something, because the Amazon driver has to hold their scanner next to the door before it will unlock. But even with the retrofit locks where the only new piece is on the interior side , it could be something that could be read through the door.

It’s interesting that at least for the introductory period they are offering free installation.


(Never Trust @bamarayne) #10

Sorry for the lack of clarity…

This part:

Not sure that’s the case, looks like there are options for retrofitting existing locks.


#11

Sorry for the confusion. I was responding to the question about whether an existing smart lock model would work with this new service.

I already have one of these locks, store bought version, that works with SmartThings but these may have different electronics and not compatible with SmartThings.

If you have an existing smart lock, but the new Amazon key – compatible locks with the same outside case have not only a different networking module inside but also have additional interior hardware differences such as a Bluetooth/NFC reader, then you would have to replace the whole smart lock that you currently have with the new Amazon key – compatible model.

If you don’t currently have a smart lock on that door, then, yes, they do have a retrofit model which allows you to just put A piece over the Turnbolt mechanism on the interior door and leave the exterior hardware the same.

But the retrofit models can’t work with an existing smart lock, because they each have an actuator for the deadbolt.

The retrofit models work because they just fit over a manual turn bolt.


(John Larkin) #12

Looks like for the Yale lock this lock is a modified version of the YRD226 (thus, the AZ at the end of the model number), which does not have bluetooth and works with Smartthings. My guess is that since you need to have the Amazon camera for everything to work the Amazon delivery person sends a cellular command to Amazon which in turn connects to the camera, which in turn connects to the lock by a ZigBee command to unlock the door - just like the Smartthings hub would do.


(Jim Reed) #13

Based on what I read the driver does no hold their scanner next to the door. Instead they scan the package which is transmitted over the cloud to Amazon and they trigger unlocking the door and recording video via Alexa.

I guess for some there may be a benefit of having this service, but for people like me with an upstairs porch that is not visible to people walking by, leaving stuff on the porch works perfectly fine. Unless Amazon offers perks for people with this feature (like free Prime) I don’t see this being adopted quickly.


#14

I think will just have to wait until these are out in the field to figure out exactly what they’re doing.

My friend (who is also a network engineer) pointed out this in the FAQ:

Amazon verifies that the package belongs to the address and the driver is near the door, turns on Amazon Cloud Cam and unlocks your door.

The question is how are they doing that verification? If “near the door” is microlocation and literally means standing in front of the door and they’re doing that before they turn the camera on, then it would make sense if it was the lock recognizing the scanner device.

My friend suggests that this would make the most sense from an engineering standpoint because if you just go by the driver’s location, the driver might check in while they are still sitting in the truck, causing the door to unlock before they’re actually there.

Or if they just went by GPS, the driver might be standing by the wrong door, maybe the front door when the special lock is on the side door, and then the driver would report that the lock didn’t unlock when in fact the side door lock did unlock.

So my friend thinks it will make sense if they actually have some kind of handshake between the correct lock and the driver scanning device to make sure the driver is actually standing in front of the correct door.

But while all of that is logical, it doesn’t mean that’s the way they’ve implemented this. :wink: So again, we’ll just have to wait and see.


(Jim Reed) #15

Or the camera could come on first and use facial recognition before unlocking the door.


#16

Hard to use facial recognition when the delivery person is likely to be a different person quite frequently. ( this is my main problem with Amazon Logistics right now, The drivers are designed to fixed route.)

And they specifically say that first the driver will be verified and then the camera will come on. But again we’ll see.

BTW, it’s also interesting that If This system does require driver verification based on some kind of equipment that the driver is carrying, it will only work with official Amazon deliveries. A lot of the other entryway systems are designed to work with multiple carriers. :wink:


(Marc) #17

I am with you on this. The question is, what is more likely to happen, someone steals your package off your front porch OR someone abuses the access given in your home. A lot of us have pets too which complicates matters further. I am surprised Amazon is doing this but I am sure they are making sure the owner accept all of the liability.


(Jim Reed) #18

Hard to use facial recognition when the delivery person is likely to be a different person quite frequently.

I don’t understand this logic. This is 21st century stuff. Everything will be done real-time. The delivery service can know exactly who is delivering the package at a specific day/time. When they scan the package on your porch the delivery person must be logged into their scanning device in order for it to be sent back to Amazon. Then the driver can look up at the camera and the image is sent back to Amazon for facial recognition. If the face from the camera matches the driver/package that was scanned, the door is unlocked. Seems totally feasible to me.


#19

The FAQ says don’t use the service if you have a pet that has access to the front door.

They can’t make the recipient accept all of the liability. But they’re pretty clearly defining the task as open the front door, put the package inside, close the front door.

And they’re going to make sure that there’s a camera filming that entire sequence. The rules of the program also require that the camera be within 25 feet of the front door and aimed at it.

In this sense, the Amazon offering is much more limited than Walmart, because with Walmart the person actually comes into your house and puts your groceries away.

“Think about that — someone else does the shopping for you AND puts it all away,” Sloan Eddleston, vice president of Walmart eCommerce Strategy & Business Operations, wrote in a blog post Friday.
.
“As the homeowner, I’m in control of the experience the entire time,” he added. “I’m watching the entire process from start to finish from my home security cameras. As I watch the associate exit my front door, I even receive confirmation that my door has automatically been locked.”

My concern is that at the very least the Walmart person is seeing a lot more of my home than the Amazon person. If your house is designed with a vestibule or a mudroom, the Amazon person would see very little. Especially since as designed the Amazon person is not supposed to actually come into the house. Just open the door, put the package inside, and close the door again.

It will be interesting to see how both of these offerings do and how many people sign up for them. :sunglasses:


#20

Sure, if you’re using a casino type system. But that requires another person on the other end, which increases Amazon’s costs. That’s 20th century technology. :wink:

In the 21st-century, facial recognition is automated as with the netatmo welcome camera , but then that requires a previous scan of that specific person.