Other than adding voice control, I think everything that Alexa does was previously available through IFTTT for most devices. I’m Trying to think of one that doesn’t also have an IFTTT channel.
And the IFTTT channel almost always has more features than the Alexa integration. For example, Alexa cannot set the color of the hue bulb, but IFTTT can.
Echo made the home automation devices easier to access on a daily basis just because voice control is easier and they did a great job of providing inexpensive voice control.
But I think if you take voice control itself out of the equation, it’s IFTTT that is the real pioneer.
Just as an example, there’s no way currently to have basic Alexa process the input from a humidity sensor or a lux sensor or a contact sensor or a motion sensor. That’s a big missing piece for home automation. But IFTTT is there to fill in the blanks without requiring an additional hub.
1 Like
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
22
Right, I finally got the gist of what you were saying, it just wasn’t coming across very clear.
Don’t take what I was saying as condescending, it wasn’t meant to be.
Just passing on my brain waves to yours.
But yes, I agree that you are definitely making a good point. A hubless future is a definite possibility.
With the ever increasing speeds and bandwidth of wireless transmissions available at affordable home user pricing, everything processed in the cloud an eventuality that I hope to see soon.
I don’t know about that, how did your folks control what their say Nest did. Hmmm, let’s take out Alexa and see if they can still control their thermostat yelling at their speaker.
You’re quite wrong. All of my automations involving lights and/or motion sensors run locally on the ST hub and do not require internet access.
[quote=“tpip, post:12, topic:57509, full:true”]
Most people don’t want all of the capabilities that a hub like ST can offer, especially if it means creating/looking for codes like ST basically forces its users to do.[/quote]
While there are some well-implemented user-written apps and device handlers I’ve made use of, they’re in fact not required to realize a great deal of the functionality provided by ST. In fact most of the apps and handlers I use are official ones that were quite simple to install and use via the ST app. The fact that system can be enhanced by the user community does not in any way force you to make use of playform to do more things…more flexibly and easier…than you could without it.
Yes they did. But to be honest, I find integration of smart thermostats…especially those with the capabilities of my Ecobee3s…to be among the least useful feature. Once I got the thermostats configured to my liking they’ve been pretty autonomous, not requiring any input from either myself or my HA system. Sure, there are some use cases for that integration…but none I’ve found to be of much real value.
Again, you’re confusing human-initiated device control events with “home automation”. Neither your Echo/Dot nor the Alexa service can automate anything in your home. The closest they can come is sounding a tone at a time that you request (alarms and timers).
What I’ve said has nothing at all to do with not wanting “to see what other products are out there that could possibly be better”. I have 2 Echos, have given Dots as gifts and am Alexa’s greatest advocate among all of my friends, family and co-workers. I also had and made great use of my Echos BEFORE I spent so much as a penny on ST or any other home automation infrastructure, so your understanding of the reasons for my views is ill-informed.
It can be adequate for a lot of things. But it is not a substitute for a smart automation controller. That’s necause what you, I and others are doing with our Echos is not home automation. There are other tools and services (like IFTTT) that you can use to automate your home to some extent, but Alexa has nothing to do with those automations.
And I answered that question. You just don’t seem to have liked my answers, as evidenced by this silly statement:
LOL! How in the world did you manage to get that from anything that I’ve said? I’ve been quite openly critical of many aspects of ST’s architecture and implementation since I’ve been here, and at no point in this thread have I said anything at all about it being “the best thing going”. I’ve simply addressed what is, in terms of its functional purpose, and what Alexa is (and what it is not) in those same terms.
Don’t assume that others are emotionally tied up in a technical discussion just because they’re not saying, “Yep, you’re right.”
[quote=“JDRoberts, post:10, topic:57509”]
I would have to respectfully disagree.[/quote]
I don’t see where we’re in disagreement. You’re absolutely correct about being able to implement home automation using things like IFTTT. But that wasn’t the question posed by this thread, which was whether or not the Alexa service can “dominate” home automation, supplanting ST and other smart controllers. The obvious answer to that is “no”, as Alexa is…as you’ve so often pointed out yourself…nothing more than a voice interface (as it pertains to your HA ecosystem). It offers no home automation capabilities.
Honestly I think you guys have been doing HA to long. :). I’m not sure I care about how it’s done; packets directly to a device or an API to a cloud service as long as it provides the results. So I’m a guy that loves tech but without Alexa this stuff is nearly worthless to me. So the first HA demo I saw the person 1)pulled out their mobile device. 2) Logged in 3)open the app 4) scrolled through his device list and 5) pushed the button on the device and the light came on. “Isn’t that cool?” I said “NO” and pushed the same switch in a less than a second. iMO If it’s not “frictionless” it’s not better. Alexa is nearly perfect… When you want something done simply ask and that can trigger a simple common or complex tasks. I have multiple device sequences setup for good morning, goodnight, I’m leaving, I’m home (not those phases) I could run around the house or simply ask… The choice is clear, just ask and that’s why voice control interface to me is critical. That’s said, I still need a scheduler and Alexa’s basic schedules for lights etc. is not as robust as a hub for schedules. Also the ST hubs talk to almost everything, so ST acts as the bridge to things Alexa doesn’t control directly. Alexa is not stand alone yet but without Alexa I’m not sure I would be doing any of this.
Yet! Not yet. But who knows what they have up their sleeve next. Can they dominate the HA market? They certainly proved to smoke Siri and Ok Google. They could take on HA and run as provider in chief. They can certainly grow to dominate the HA in the near future. They are missing a comprehensive rule builder. If they get that right, then the market is theirs. We know there are already rumors of Amazon teaching Alexa to be impromptu…
1 Like
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
29
This is exactly how I feel. At no point do u ever want to use my phone to do something… I use it for system maintenance and that is it.
To me, home automation is what ST and the smartapps like CoRE provide. Home control is what Alexa provides.
I want my automations to do things without my input… Lights turn on and off.
But when I do have to interact with the house, I want to do it via voice.
[quote=“SBDOBRESCU, post:28, topic:57509”]
Yet! Not yet. But who knows what they have up their sleeve next.[/quote]
True enough. But the question was with regard to what Alexa actually is, not what it might possibly become at some unknown time in the future. As it stands now neither the Alexa service nor the Echo/Dot have the capabilities in question, and Amazon hasn’t given any indication that it intends to transform these products into home automation controllers. If either of those things happen then I’ll happily change my tune.
What I’m saying is that the best of these consumer devices, in the proper combinations will/do create the illusion that they are either an extension of you or disappear out of the way. Think of how smartphones have become a part of so many people’s bodies. What percentage of people would lose their mind if they were without their phones for 10 minutes?
This is what the best products do. They disappear out of the way and let magic happen.
My original point is that the mainstream consumer doesn’t care “how” it works, just “that” it works. That’s what the best of these products do.
I like how Jason put it… Home control = Alexa, home automation = smart things . Agreed, the more transparent the better. I had a wireless router issue recently and I posted " I am walking around pushing switch like an animal. " These devices are fully integrated into my family’s lifestyle.
"On average, our customers have over 40 connected devices in their homes that are orchestrated by Control4 and now, voice interaction with Amazon Alexa offers another convenient way to control all of them,” said Martin Plaehn, Control4 CEO.
To me, home automation is what ST and the smartapps like CoRE provide. Home control is what Alexa provides.
Pretty much sums it up.
SmartThings is the core for Home Automation.
SmartTiles is a UI for Home Control
CoRE is a tool for Home Automation
Alexa is literally a cloud voice/text processing system that integrates into a SmartApp.
Echo is a product that takes voice commands and sends them to Alexa.
I’ve got a program on my Mac that lets me send Alexa commands to Amazon. You can send your own requests to Alexa and have it do things. You don’t technically need an Echo, it just ties everything together nicely.
You could essentially use Google Home to control Alexa if it was fully open and someone developed something for it. That’ll never happen though because of competition, however you can use AutoVoice on Android to control Alexa if you know what you’re doing,although there isn’t much point because you might as well just control SmartThings directly using AV.
I hope so. But what was announced for today was the ability to turn on a predefined scene. Not quite the same thing, although obviously you can have the same end result as long as you have planned in advance for all the color options you might want.
@JDRoberts BTW, I’ve been playing with this new skill for the past hour and I can tell you, it doesn’t work worth a darn. I only got it to work once. Most of the time Alexa says “OK”, and nothing happens.
1 Like
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
38
I’m pretty new in the game so most of my HA is simple lighting schedules. I like the outside lights to go on and off at the right time without having to do anything. Alexa is great but she can’t control my switches. I need a hub for that. I like being able to operate my entertainment system by voice but I need she can’t do it without the harmony hub.
These devices are fully integrated into my family’s lifestyle.