webCoRE is going to die?

Haven’t been on the forum for a while, but lately I see people talking about webCoRE will eventually stop working when Groovy smartapps support is stopped in the future.

Are they not trying to migrate webCoRE to Rules API? I remember (of course I might be wrong to recall) they were hinting moving (or building new) webCore using Rules API in SDC.

And if webCoRE is not being migrated, what should we do with current complicated pistons still humming happily every day? Or is there any alternative being built?

Losing webCoRE may be the actual last straw for me to leave ST… I’m still happy with ST till this day…

Webcore itself isn’t going to die: it will continue to work in its groovy incarnation with some other platforms. They have their own forum, so you can see more about that over there.

The groovy version that works with smartthings will go away when the Samsung hosted free groovy cloud goes away, just like every other groovy smart app.

As to how much of the functionality will be replaced by the new official feature, the rules API, it’s just hard to say yet. That is still in development.

We should also note that the original author of Webcore was hired by SmartThings A couple of years ago but has since moved onto yet another company, so he is no longer available as a resource. But Samsung has many other talented developers.

You can read more about the new rules API in the following area of the forum. “recipes” are their version of “pistons.”

If you have a specific piston that you can’t figure out how to re-create with the new architecture, you can start a thread under automation ideas and someone may be able to help. :thinking:

And for more information on the hub’s role in the new architecture:

FAQ: I have no idea what Edge is. Is that a new developer tool? (2022)

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Oh yeah, there was supposed to be something like an advanced rules thing baked into the app, I think. Not sure how that’s coming along.

But yeah, Webcore has been laggy for me lately, and I guess will eventually stop, so I’ve been trying to migrate some things with what’s available in the app, for now.

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Thanks for the details JD! So are you suggesting that we would need to create our own recipes? I know it may be shareable but would there at least be a central location like webcore today for us to create new rules?

And I recall we need to register as a developer to tinker with rules API?

My understanding was always that ST had developed a proof of concept for running webCoRE on the Rules API and that it would be down to the webCoRE community to take this forward. I am not aware of any activity in this area. Then again over the last three years I have seen less public progress with the Rules API in terms of required functionality than I had expected, and indeed I see increasing differences in approach between webCoRE and the Rules API, so the webCoRE community might have been on a hiding to nothing anyway.

I should comment that plenty of users seemed to form the impression that ST would be the ones working on webCoRE, and indeed I’ve felt like a lone voice saying differently.

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The app’s automation is just stone age compare to my pistons, yes it has local running advantage and I have many added but they’re all basic one-two automations, can’t even do different conditional automation

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My understanding, which is limited, so I hope that others will chime in, is that:

A) Samsung has been adding a lot more functionality to the basic routines that are built into the smartthings app. It’s not close to Webcore, but it’s definitely better than it used to be. So I do think there are people getting more use out of that than we used to see.

B) I honestly don’t myself know much about the rules API except that it exists and it has a subcategory in this forum.

C) some community developers have been doing some pretty amazing things with edge drivers, in particular the work that @taustin has done, so that some of the integrations and callouts that people used to do in Webcore can now be done with his projects. Not the whole variables and logic side, but the webhooks part. So that might be another option for some specific use cases.

To find those, start with the quick browse lists in the community created wiki, look in the edge drivers section, and then look on the miscellaneous list. Some very cool stuff. :sunglasses:

https://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Quick_Browse_the_Community-Created_SmartApps_Forum_Section#Quick_Browse_Links_for_Edge_Drivers

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Yep, I’ve been away for a while too, but finding some time to try to get familiar with what’s new. I’ve found a few helpful things with the Edge drivers.

I’d love to have at least an “else” to work with in automatons…

Found this…

I dunno…

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Yes, but it is just a Noddy and Big Ears automation creator built into the app. It does what it intends to do very well but it isn’t trying to be the last word in automations.

When you are trying to convert pistons to routines you can get some additional complexity by using multiple routines and virtual switches. Think of the virtual switches as variables.

The following are screenshots of 2 routines for notification whan the wash is done. I only needed 1 webcore piston, but with routines I need 2 routines and 1 virtual switch (washer Running).



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See that’s exactly why we need a rule engine, Routines can’t replace webcore and I think Samsung knows that. And relying on develops to create new webcore on rules API is another big ask…

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They may know that, but I’m not sure they care…

Before the apps were all combined, everyone using the smartthings app had a hub, but even then, smartthings employees told us multiple times that the vast majority of their customers had 15 or fewer devices and never used any custom code at all.

Since all the apps were combined together, now well over 90% of users of the smartthings app don’t have a hub at all. They have either a Samsung smart appliance or smart television. And maybe a hue bridge and a nest thermostat and a ring doorbell. They’ve never heard of Webcore, don’t need it, and probably don’t want it.

I was very impressed with Webcore, and I’m very pleased that it worked so well for the people who used it, but at this point that’s a small percentage of a small percentage and I doubt if Samsung corporate plans to spend many resources on it. Or if their stockholders would want them to. :thinking:

I’m not saying that to disparage anyone on any side, Webcore user, Samsung executive, the SmartThings engineers caught in the middle: I just think it’s a reality that we, the customers, should be aware of as we make our own decisions.

JMO, of course.

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I totally get it, it really doesn’t give them much benefit to build one for us. I just hope that they don’t shut down groovy too soon and let developers spend time on building something similar on new platform, at least I can restore majority of my complex pistons over to new one. Or if they can think of an easier way for us to build custom rules, not having to do coding (or at most minimum coding like webcore, I’m a programmer myself but a low-end one so I don’t wanna do coding even when I’m not working!)

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I have the same understanding. The only advanced automation creator I know of that is moving to the new SmartThings architecture is www.sharptools.io

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If anyone is interested in joining the beta for the next-gen SharpTools integration with SmartThings, you can find more information here:

(Basically just PM @support on the SharpTools community and we’ll get you added!)

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Thanks Josh I’ll definitely check that out! Dumb question, I read something about sharptools but that’s quite a while ago so please help to fill me in.

Is sharptools integrating SmartThings like adding edge drivers? I’ve not used edge drivers yet. Is sharptools a rule engine too?

Yes, SharpTools.io offers a dashboard and rule engine. The next gen integration is mainly to move off Groovy since it will die at some point.

Most edge drivers work fine even in the existing Groovy integration and they are native to the next gen integration, so work fine there too.

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