Updates to the SmartThings Platform

I apologize if this was discussed already, and I overlooked it. I did see some mention of it, but not this specific question. Regarding using Life360 as presence sensors.

I migrated this morning, and it went about as well as could be expected, given all the complaints on the new app. Life360 seemed to migrate and connect fine, and I see my 3 users as presence sensors, just as in the classic app.

However, it doesn’t seem that I can use them as designed in an automation. Like many people, I have actions perform based on people coming and going, and yeah, the migration broke my old ones. If I try and create a new Automation, the only option it gives me for location is to enable it in the app, not to use the existing Life360 integration. I can see the sensors under devices, but it doesn’t seem to give me the same level of control. So they give you the ability to add a device as a presence sensor, but not to use it in a meaningful way.

So, am I missing something? Is there a simple way to setup an “if everybody leaves” or “if anybody arrives” condition using Life360? Or am I going to have to create yet another WebCore piston to overcome these shortcomings?

I won’t go into the horrible integration of my weather station, or the terrible UI, or everything else people are well aware of.

Thanks

If you are building an automation based on a presence sensor that is NOT the builtin NewApp phone presence, look under ‘Device Status’ instead of ‘Member Location’ fornthose devices…

You are correct, not intuitive at all…

4 Likes

I concur with this. I have automations that lock the door when either of us leave. The “If” is Presence sensor:Not Present. I also have a virtual presence sensor that mirrors the Life360 sensor so that you can have Alexa trigger routines based on the state…which is currently broken due to the new Alexa integration.

I also use the Life360 presence in Smartapps like LUM so that certain key codes don’t activate certain actions if either of us is home.

Yes, it’s slightly non-intuitive but Life360 is emulating a device not a geolocation for an individual.

Thank you @nathancu & @h0ckeysk8er.

I did see the sensors under the device list. Unfortunately it seems like these automations are really dumbed down. For example I don’t see any way (could be overlooking it) to add a complex If statement. Like,

If Presence sensor1:Not Present or Presence sensor2:Not Present or Presence sensor3:Not Present and Location mode= whatever.

Or what about adding a time buffer. If Presence sensor1:Not Present for > 5 mintues.

Certainly things I can do in WebCore, and I will likely resort to that. But it’s stupid to have to reinvent the wheel on what is supposed to be an “upgrade”

Actually, you can do that particular one. Location mode is allowed to be a pre-condition to any others. You can also change the conditions from All (and) to Any (or). So you end up with:

If Location mode=somestate
then if
sensor1=not present
or
sensor2=not present
or
sensor3=not present

do something

One routine I have is “If either sensor is present, unlock the front door, change location mode, disarm security, send a notification of disarming”

Also, you have greater flexibility in some of the SmartApps like LUM where you can prevent certain things from happening based on location mode, presence sensor state, etc. In fact, LUM treats the Life360 presence sensor as part of “People” just like a mobile phone presence.

If you click on your Life360 Sensor under devices, but get an error and cannot access it, you may have to uninstall ST NewApp and reinstall it. I found this resolution in an old post. It was the only thing that got Life360 presence sensors working for me again. The “Member Location” utilizing the “Get your location from this phone” seemed to be just as unreliable for geolocation in the ST NewApp as ST Classic, (which I why I switched to Life360 in the first place).

Note: Once you sign in to the ST NewApp again, you won’t lose your settings, devices, automations, SmartApps, etc… however your main screen (rooms, etc.) will need to be re-ordered, as well as the devices in each of your rooms re-ordered. (The devices stay grouped in your rooms, but the order is reset.) Not the worst of problems, but just a heads-up.

1 Like

Thanks. I didn’t realize there was a pre-condition option for location mode, that helps a little. Still removes the ability to have an x-minute buffer after leaving to run the automation, but it’s a start.

Now if anybody has any ideas as to why it thinks my Weather Station is somehow a motion sensor, I’ll all ears, ha ha

1 Like

Thanks. The issue isn’t that I can’t access the sensors - I can. It’s that the new app doesn’t treat them like it does the built in location, which is dumb on many levels.

How do you see the built in presence devices other than using the Classic app? Are they suppressed in NewApp? All’s I see is in History, device “Glen’s Galaxy S9” occupancy:inside (which is well after the geofence is entered and presence:present fires)

You don’t. they’re suppressed.

What I did, is create an analogous Simulated Presence Sensor for both me and my wife, then used WebCoRE to set those based on the status of the built-in presence sensors. Bonus side effect, I can apply intervening filter logic such as - never set sensor X ‘away’ if a certain calendar item is present in [this Google Calendar] (I’m using GCal Search [UPDATED 3/27/18] GCal Search for that functionality BTW)

1 Like

Only problem is preconditions are currently broken and aren’t respected.

1 Like

See that there, to me, is the first nail in the coffin, and loudly demonstrates that Samsung ST is actively working against their community, suppressing information that we power users need for the sake of simplifying their mass-market experience. That, and I’m sure they’ve received their share of presence not working support calls, which is no way to deal with a problem by hiding it.

Disappointing at least. Enlightening at best. I now know clearly what I need to do.

1 Like

That’s certainly not the only problem, but it is one. Another one I just found (possibly related). I can’t have a precondition on location mode, and also have the automation run a scene which affects location mode.

Looks like I’m off to WebCore once again. It’ll be faster than fighting with this thing

1 Like

I read it differently - I don’t think it’s so much ‘suppressed’ as I suspect they have to go out of their way to ensure backwards compatibility with the old Groovy IDE. If you’ve ever tried to get funding for a backwards compat project for a platform that has an EOL date already - you’ll know that’s PAINFUL… In this case, they DID make it where the newapp presence sensor at least DOES show up as a device that can be subscribed to and in fact I USE it in my WebCoRE Automations. Working against would have been - “screm em - they don’t need it.”

My scotch is half full.

3 Likes

Also, you can delay actions on devices, but not on location mode changes, security mode changes, running scenes, or notifications. Why the inconsistency? Who knows?

1 Like

Yeah, the automations are all sorts of messed up, and with no public change log or open issues we can’t even set expectations appropriately. As a replacement for routines, they are not production ready.

1 Like

This describes how to create a simulated presence sensor that minics your real one, so that it shows up in the new app (and has history).

1 Like

I’m a product manager (in real life). I understand the trade-offs, believe me – but it does boil down to priorities, which in the Presence case and indeed in this whole thread, demonstrates they are not at all acting in the interests of this community. Especially the whole bellyaching over Echo Speaks is really childish – if they had an issue supporting @tonesto7 's architecture, they should have worked it out with him in advance, or provided a replacement within the ST product. It was an excuse. Respectfully disagree.

I have had so much trouble with presence over the years – really its the second thing in this platform that gave me the most angst. (The first is the unreliability of scheduling and the crap-shoot if it will run your scheduled function from day-to-day.) And the whole NewApp “Get your location from this phone” should not be creating alternate presence devices, which makes it necessary to edit all your routines to reference the new device after retiring Classic. Another de-prioritized disservice to this community.

8 Likes

I thought this upgrade was supposed to increase stability?

And chocolate rations are increasing!

3 Likes

Since the NEW alexa skill is not currently working (routines, and not being able to select what devices to add), has any thought be given to delaying the retirement of the classic Alexa skill currently set for Sept 8th. That is only a few weeks away.

4 Likes