ST Alternative?

I have both Wink and ST and find Wink easier, more reliable and support is great. Wink was bought by the company that was making the hub for Wink. They are still working on fixes and new options the user’s want. If they get their local control out, I see no advantages to staying with ST. If something new comes out that supports the many devices I have, then I would move. Just not as quick as I did to SmartThings. The only tI’m I would recommend ST is if you like to get into code writing. Wink has recently released it’s API. Wink has a better organized user support group. Just check out there Facebook page, lots of people to offer help.

I was okay with everything you said until this. You’re comparing WUG to this forum? WUG is run by a biased megalomaniac who is hell bent on banning anyone who threatens the revenue of free gear he gets from Wink :smile:

Despite some of the negative trends happening on this forum, users are far safer and supported by significantly better community talent than they’d ever be on WUG and yes, I was banned from there, funnily enough for actually trying to stick up for that megalomaniac. You might be good now, but don’t ever get on the wrong side of Paul.


Thanks for a great reply! I’m looking forward to your update this summer or fall as new devices roll out. And, sure, I can wait. ST got me from no protection & automation to a system that works 99% or more of the time. I’m excited to see what the future brings in improved integration, reliability, new connected devices, etc.

@Mander writes: having spent 10 years of my career as a director of IT. This is a big mess. I didn’t spend money on a beta product. I mean hell i waited for V2. If you spend time reading through the forums it is obvious the uptime/reliability is getting worse with time not better.

What you bought is a product in a developing market area. During your decade as director of IT you no doubt noticed that new product areas (noSQL, cloud computing, you name it) were not seamless and perfect at first. Just search what people say about Amazon Cloud Services for business, now apparently running smoothly but having a rough start. And this from a company with oodles of resources and skilled programmers/managers. It’s tough to get new things right.

I’d like to see ST grow into the premier home automation company but the sadly odds are they will fall along the wayside just as so many have when any new wave of technology is introduced. The history of auto manufacturing, computing, cellphones, you name it provides clear examples.

I have no idea if the reliability of deployed devices is getting better or worse. My personal experience is that it is about the same or getting better. We hear more complaints on the forum since the excitement of getting some home automation running when you had nothing before is dying down and so now people complain (part of this no doubt anger the bugs keep happening), plus as sales expand more people are buying the system that just expect it to work.

Waiting for V2 might have been a mistake. When the company was sold I bet they provided a roadmap of future development, and reaching product milestones may have been a part of the sale payout, so they were going to hit them ready or not. Furthermore Samsung now calls the shots; it wouldn’t surprise me if some experienced developers that would have been working on fixing pre-launch bugs in V2 were switched to developing the TV-based system. And when they moved to the pricey Bay-area after the sale perhaps some programmers decided not to move.

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What are you basing that statement on? I posted this in another thread but I’m going to re-post it here.

I was doing almost everything I can do with ST almost 20 years ago with
X10, Dragon Dictate and IBM ViaVioice. Granted it wasn’t as smart as
Alexa but I could command my house to do all kinds of things. It took a
lot of coding to make it work but it was a fun hobby. It all worked
really well until my daughter was born and her crying would make the
house turn into a haunted house but that’s another story. When I got ST I
wanted a plug and play system that I didn’t have to babysit. Been
there, done that. As it turns out it is just another hobby that I have
to attend to, on it’s schedule not mine. I just think the state of HA
should be far more advanced than it currently is. ST can be very
frustrating at times. Just today I walked into the kitchen to get a
drink, the light didn’t come on until I walked back in to the living
room. Don’t get me wrong I like the convenience when it works but I just
don’t have the desire to babysit my home 24/7. I just want a system
that is advertised as consumer friendly to work as such. I’ll stick with
ST until the next best thing comes along.


This is not a comprehensive statement.

Do you consider yourself below average, average or above average? :wink: I really hope you didn’t mean to insult 50% of the people in these forums.

So by that logic so is the toothbrush. You totally missed the point of my post.

Really? Ignore the fact that it has been around forever? So I guess I can count on HA to never work.

So if someone doesn’t understand technology that makes them a moron?

Just another Moron


  1. Informal. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment
  2. Psychology. (no longer in technical use; now considered offensive) a person of borderline intelligence in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.

Seriously but with the effort anymore

Thank you. I didn’t post my response with your post attached. Let’s get back to trying to make the system better and assist where we can. Once in a while I may bitch about the system but that is only so I don’t pull out the little remaining hair I have left. When I have truly had enough, if that ever happens, I will move on to something else. In the meantime I plan on living with the ups and downs as they come.

I completely agree, that’s why I went ahead and deleted my posts.

My crash a couple of weeks ago was a result of my doing… I’m pretty sure I figured out what happened.

  1. I built my system like most people, as I bought things I added them to the system. Something I believe added to the crash was that after adding things I never ran a z-wave repair.
  2. I was removing a couple of devices and got impatient… I screwed up the system by what I did.

I do know that during my reinstall I started closest to the hub with my Zwave devices. I ran a Zwave repair after every 10 items added. I’m running about 65 now. I worked my way out from the hub as went.

Once I was done with the Zwave I installed all of my zigbee devices.

Since then it’s been running great, except for a single rule failure yesterday.

The devices are also much more responsive.

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My 2 cents, moving back to vera soon. Tired of the issues here, the convoluted system of apps and routines, and unreliability.


I responded to this in another thread, but, no (speaking as a network engineer) the behavior you describe would not cause the crash you saw in a normal zwave network. Never having done a zwave repair and then removing some devices might leave you with some orphans, but it wouldn’t cause all zwave devices to be unresponsive and, most importantly, it shouldn’t cause the zwave repair itself to fail. Because orphans and bad routing tables are exactly the problem a zwave repair is supposed to solve.

And since several other people reported similar symptoms that same week without having removed any devices, i think you just ran into something flaky in the ST architecture. I hope it doesn’t recur, but I wouldn’t bet money on it. And I don’t think it was user error.



This might be everyone’s answer to all the issues smartthings has produced.

Looks promising! Will give it some time to get started but will definitely keep my eye on it.

Every system has pluses and minuses. Abode is more promising for security than home automation at the moment, though, as it puts very sharp limits on the number of home automation rules you can use, and only supports a few devices.


@SBDOBRESCU has Abode and speaks very highly of it for a home security system. However, as mentioned by @JDRoberts, it’s limited on the HA front. I would love to rip my Smarrthings and Simplisafe systems for one reliable system, but nothing can replace these two based on my requirements just yet. Abode probably is the most promising, but they will need a good couple of years to catch up.

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In today’s HA market, there isn’t a one-size-fits-all kind of system, and I doubt we will see one anytime soon - unless you’re ready to break the bank. After two years of searching, I realized that instead of looking for that perfect system that does it all, I need to be looking at the specific uses I’d like to address in my home. So I came up with a list.

I want:

increased security,
climate control,
light automation and
A/V control.

I thought ST was the answer to all, and in many ways it could be, but for a perfectionist like me, it is definitely NOT.

ST failed miserably at security, so I moved on to Abode because like any other security system they put reliability first.

ST is mediocre at climate control due to its reliability issues, but at this moment, I didn’t find an alternative system to manage zone panels, thermostats and vents, so I am sticking with ST for now.

ST is best at light automation due to its flexibility and broad integration of many devices. Especially since the local processing was launched, my family really enjoys the convenience of home automation.

ST is subpar for A/V control because of its reliability issues and limited (broken) functionality. My choice remains Harmony remotes for coordinating the A/V devices.


It took ST over 3 years to get where? In a place where hiccups are occurring at a maddening rate. In a place where official support is non-existent. In a place where many of the promised functionality is broken on regular basis? I hope the new kids on the block learn something from ST’s experience and avoid overcommitting and underfunding their core business proposals!


Remember… it has taken over 3 years for SmartThings to get where it is today.

And it is very sad that it is still miserably unreliable.


Let’s hope that this new product can deliver, some of us are itching to move on.

As an Abode owner myself, there are some definite strengths and weaknesses.

Currently, the automation side is very week. Their devices are not going to be compatible with other hubs if you decide to switch away from them (although they do support Z-Wave so you can bring some devices with you to them).

The streaming camera, while Wi-Fi operable, still requires power (and should be wired Ethernet for best connection).

The biggest strengths to me are the build quality, customer service, plan options, and cell backup.
One of the guys gave me his cell phone number in case I needed to reach him while he was out of town for the holidays. That says a few things about their support to me. First, they are dedicated to getting this up and running. Second, they really are short-staffed.
Going out of town for a week? Cool. You can get their service for a few days, or a month. No contracts.
Cellular backup with a built-in 12 hour battery means you can continue to be protected when the power goes out. Sure your automations likely will fail (no lights and switches will work), but at least you’ll be notified if someone tries to get in.
The motion camera is battery operated and will still be able to protect you (I mean, take it off the wall and beat someone with it, it’s that heavy duty).

I expect Abode to be acquired by a major player in the next 18 months. Unfortunately, I don’t know what that will mean for the future of their hubs.

For now, ST is staying put as a key player for home automation. The security side of things definitely needs some adjustments (give us routine style options for SHM and fix some of the issues with the false alarms).
ST has the support to really build and grow. Abode has a very small user base and that is going to make it tough for them to make big strides.


They also support zigbee. I agree their automation is weak and quite prohibitive, 10 automations limit for the free account means nothing if you throw lights into the mix, and the rule engine is less than basic, BUT…for security purposes it’s just right. I have no problems giving up flexibility for reliability when it comes to securing the premises. Even if they add climate control, which I have been teying to convince them that would go well with security, that would be perfect and even with the free account (or the cellular account which I plan on getting) that’s all I need from them. There are plenty of fish to run my light automation reliably. I still believe ST can and will do lights well and more, just fun with security don’t mix well…

Obviously, this is not going to scale. When SmartThings had few thousand users, their support was really impressive. And look at it now. Who wants to give their cell number to thousands of frustrated users?