Smartthings Existential Crisis - Is it time to leave? (April 2021)

@JDRoberts, I have to argue with this. Dropping support for a 2-3 years old appliance is not what people expect, especially for the extra cost what a “smart” appliance costs.

Glitches…

  1. Samsung Washer - Cannot automate at all, when turned off it loose connection. Recently I added to my account 3-4 times again and again, because it loose control, it shows status on the dashboard tile, but not on the main tile. Samsung Washer, DH developed by Samsung.

  2. Side-by-side Fridge - Limited automation to turn on and off power cool or freeze if temperature changes, no option to turn on or off Vacation Mode, which would make sense regarding a remote function. (The option to register what you have in the fridge, is a great idea,
    maybe for a wine fridge or a minibar fridge, but for a side-by-side fridge, who has time to catalog everything there…) Samsung Fridge, DH developed by Samsung.

  3. Samsung TV - I own a 2015 or 2016 model, there is no integration to Samsung SmartThings, there used to be to SmartThings until Samsung released a firmware update to TV and introduced the PIN authentication. SmartThings never reproduced the feature. It supposed to work with SmartView, which has been implemented to SmartThings, I haven’t tried it, as it shows up only ad a “Directly connected device”, but I have serious doubts that it would work.

4,5,6… Samsung Oven, Hob, AC, Robotic Vacuum etc… I cannot count how many people complained recently that they cannot automate these devices or access some features, which are available through the consol or remote, all DHs are developed by Samsung.

New features… Android Auto, I cannot get any of my Scenes to show up, then what is the point to be able to select them.
Nest integration, all sort of complains regarding features and options to automate on them.
C2C integrations, disconnected cloud connection, status changes not reflected in one or the other app.

Then who is the target, if the basic requirements cannot be met for anybody?

And the reviews, I love when an app pushes a pop-up, do you like the app, rate us… No comment. Samsung did a campaign when things started to go seriously downhill regarding reviews. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do buy reviews as well…

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I also get the impression that the team handling the app is a very different team than handles the platform, hub firmware, etc. I think I’ve seen mention that the app team is in South Korea, while the rest I believe are in the US. Who knows where support is actually located. Due to the difference in teams, things get communicated poorly internally (and externally) and you end up with an app that doesn’t properly support what’s underlying it. The app updates also seem to be pretty slow to come out, I think they’re only doing about one a month and there’s barely any changes/fixes in each update.

My stuff works and has been working well for a while now. I use mostly webCoRE which I’m hoping a suitable alternative will come out of all of this.

The current built in rule engine has caused many issues and I believe it’s the source of most people’s pain. It’s just unreliable…Every time I try to use it, it lets me down.

It’s going to be a complete “to-do” switching all of my devices and rules to another platform so I’m sticking here because I to, can see the light at the end of this tunnel.

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Yeah, it’s the Hubitat UI that keeps me on Smartthings. That and being too lazy to start on a new platform.

As it is, in a way, using WebCore is another platform integrated to Smartthings, but the idea that something equivalent, or dare I hope better, might be on the horizon, is what keeps me around. Well, and the laziness.

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I use webCoRE almost exclusively too and like you, have avoided a lot of the current pain points that many have justifiable issues with. I sure hope that there is a suitable webCoRE replacement eventually - because otherwise I feel I may be just putting off all the pain for a little while.

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I think a replacement is here and I’m surprised not to hear more about it, using the Samsung Automation studio and Node red. I moved all my automations off Webcore and onto Node Red over the past two weeks. There’s a learning curve, but there was for Webcore at first too.

What’s possible in Node Red really blows Webcore out of the water. I’m doing it through a Home-assistant to Smartthings integration, but I think there is an easier way using the Samsung Automation studio https://sasm.developer.samsung.com/features
Which has an active and supported Node Red palette node-red-contrib-samsung-automation-studio-nodes (node) - Node-RED The pallette looks like it can bring all your Smartthings devices over to Node Red, where you can run all sorts of automations and link it to other devices and services.

Most run Node red locally, on a raspberry pi. Or you can pay $5 and download it from the play store and run it on an Android tablet. There appears to be a free way to have it run online I just posted about here Node-Red and Smartthings - #41 by mwav3

I can’t see Webcore working in is current format without the IDE though, and it’s future was just too shaky for me. This palette on Node Red is API based so will continue working after the IDE is phased out.

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Wow… that’s news to me. Thanks for that!

If they want to sell appliances they need to improve their reliability and quality, as well as their customer service outside of Korea. I don’t think most users care about smart features. How many regular fridges does Samsung sell for each family hub fridge?

The issue is that large appliances (fridges, dishwashers, etc) from samsung are not reliable. Maybe not more unreliable than other similar brands (i.e. LG, GE, Whirlpool) but when they do break their customer service is only tolerable if you live in Korea.

Their priority should be customer service, not smart features. Samsung has by far the worst customer service in the entire industry in North America.

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While I agree with most that you stated…the Honeywell 9000 is most certainly still supported by Smartthings…the dth has even recently updated to show the temp on the tile and a refreshed device page as it did in the past

Totally agree…and my guess is the family hub will go the wayside within the next 2-3 years…while it looks cool at first glace, its nothing more than a gadget that is only moderately useful which 99.8% of people don’t care for, don’t want, and definitely will not pay the extra money for… so what’s next Samsung? the family hub toilet?

I don’t see why. The UI (using any web browser) is responsive and comes directly from your local hub. I use it for adding devices and automations. I don’t use the UI for anything day-to-day – that’s what automation is for. You can add a dashboard to show status and control in a pretty way, and I have a few, but I don’t use them. All of my house is automated; lights respond to sensor inputs (motion, contract). Manual control is done by voice (we use Alexa) and/or switches with bindings (e.g., any double press in the kitchen acts on all the kitchen lights). I never used the SmartThings app for day-to-day purposes, and that continues to be the case with Hubitat.

And when debugging something (e.g., is this contact sensor all the way at the limits of Zigbee range working) it’s invaluable to see exactly just the device/hub interaction in real time, without random delays or cloud-based back-end lag. History doesn’t randomly take time to show up.

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I’m not hating on Hubitat. Essentially, I’m prejudiced about something I’ve not really explored.

It has always been my intention to get started with HT at some point, but figured with the pace of improvements, I need not be in a hurry. The mobile UI is the thing I hear most people complaining about, and that has really stuck with me, regardless of the reality of it.

If I couldn’t run my critical devices locally with Smartthings, I would have already been there, but the more good things I’ve hear about HT, the more I feel motivated to give it a spin.

I don’t feel I would need to abandon ST when I do, as some people suggest they do, with dramatic farewells etc…

So, I guess it boils down to laziness, and waiting on a sale…

Thanks for the info!

The spring sale is happening right now. :wink:

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I’ve not abandoned ST. I still have my hub active and a large number of passively monitored devices on it. E.g., contact sensors for all my doors and windows, and a webCoRE piston to tell me if the HVAC is on while a window is open. In fact, some of those sensors being used in that piston are actually on my C-7 and are exposed to SmartThings via the HubConnect app (making them usable in all the ST infrastructure).

But all my actively controlled devices and the automations controlling them are on the C-7, using devices on the C-7. Everything is fast and reliable. No cloud outages. No lost automations or devices disappearing. And most importantly, my wife doesn’t complain that she can’t rely on the automated lights to go on and off as they should. <<<< THIS IS IMPORTANT.

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I’ve found this to be the case too. If she tells me something’s not right, I’m finding that it is an “edge case” I hadn’t considered, not another platform outage.

With that being said, I’m still here monitoring the forums waiting to see what ST eventually ends up morphing into. I’m not against running more than one hub as I have 3 different ones right now.

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Hey, I started with SmartThings back in 2014, and over 6 years later I’m still running it: but now in a “hub optional” configuration with no hub at all. :wink:

There are some devices I want to use, particularly Switchbot, which don’t have a homekit Integration, and some where I want to use more complex logic than is easily available through my other platforms. I don’t put anything on it where reliability is critical, but it’s still useful to me. :sunglasses:

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@JDRoberts

I feel like I dropped this thread and then disappeared into the night, been busy all weekend.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, I WISH I was one of those people who could go out and buy smart appliances and they work without any special code and it just plain works. Even if that is samsung’s target audience, I believe they’re failing.

I HATE having to selectively shop for things that work with ST. I HATE buying an expensive item bringing it home and realizing I have to spend 45 minutes fiddling with it, downloading a 3rd party app, registering into THAT ecosystem, remembering a new username and password, going to ST, linking the 2 apps together and praying to God the fragile link and business relationship between these 2 companies doesn’t crumble or go obsolete. I HATE having to search for custom handlers.

I just bought 3 Aeotec Smart Switch 7’s on ebay for a specific project. They are Z-wave, which means they should work flawlessly. Well…sorta. In the end, they worked out fine, but Fk did they take forever to set up. I found them in the ST app, followed the pairing sequence, and scanned the QR code. Each one took a solid 10-15 minutes of hourglass, only to return a security error, ignore the error, find that they are not talking to each other, and then 30 minutes later, return to ST to find they suddenly work fine (now I can rename and create automations).

I mean, great, it works, but for something so simple, it took me about an hour to set up.

My Honeywell 9000 thermostat is the new issue. I have to say, I love the interface of this thermostat, even tells me the weather. But what once was supported is no longer part of the ST universe. I installed it back in the classic app a few years ago. Worked great, and lots of functionality, straight from the ST interface. I recently noticed reduced functionality, so I unpaired it…big mistake. It can no longer be re-integrated with ST. Now, I’m playing with the idea of dropping another several hundred bucks on a new smart thermostat, just to replace a perfectly fine working thermostat that I really like, just because my hub no longer wants to play nice.

This is another reason I’m sticking with z-wave. If it is a Wi-Fi controlled device, it’s bad news.

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Different things will work for different people. I have quite a few Wi-Fi devices now, some thing I never would’ve expected several years ago, but they are almost all ones that work with homekit. Some, like the Meross, also work with smartthings.

For example, I just put up a project report this week about the meross RGBW table lamp, which we use for notifications. It’s a very simple and elegant solution at relatively low cost for things like an “on air“ notification for zoom meetings.

Meross RGBW Table Light for Notifications

I agree the smartthings platform requirement for custom code for certified zwave Devices is very frustrating for both customers and device manufacturers. :disappointed_relieved:

@troy_owens

I’ll give the 9000 another go, but I seem to be spinning my wheels.

The 9000 worked amazingly in the classic app, seemed to get limited in the new app, then suddenly, I noticed I had almost no control at all.

I tried to uninstall/reinstall the thermostat to ST, but in doing so, it led me down a rabbit hole. I spent 20 minutes trying to login to Honeywell Home and password guessing, only to find out I didn’t have a HH account linked to any of my email address (wait, what?). So I downloaded the HH app, created a new account, realized I had to link the HH account to an older Honeywell TCC account that my thermostat was apparently on, buried deep in the interwebs, yup, that’s where my thermostat belongs, deep on some cob-webbed server in Africa, as far as I know.

Got the 2 accounts linked. FINALLY, I can control my thermostat from my phone. So I head to the ST app, select Honeywell Home, login, agree to Terms and Conditions. I’m told I have 0 compatible devices… So dead end. I can’t connect. Add to the fact, I’m now having Wi-Fi problems I never had before.

So even if I do get my thermostat to work, I have to rely on my WiFi and internet to be up, the thermostat sends a signal to TCC, which passes information to HH, which passes information to St, which passes information to Alexa, all of which requires their own security gate of login credentials, at any point I’m expecting security against an outside attacker. Meanwhile, when I tell Alexa to set my thermostat, that command has to work its way back up the chain.

Seriously, can anyone here legitimately remind me WHO the target audience is, here? You practically need a Master’s Degree just to get this fukin thing online. Data has to make 5 trips around the world, just because it’s a little warm in my living room.

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There are 2 honeywell integrations in Smartthings… The honeywell home is not the correct integration for the 9000. You’ll have to choose the honeywell total connect comfort option in ST… This is where you will find your thermostats.

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