Perplexing - Really like Smart Things system, but the problems! Your perspective on Smart Things please?

General Discussion
43

I don’t think you’ll ever get a “All clear” message. There is no such thing as a guarantee with today’s technology.

The biggest problem I’ve seen is incomplete processing of routines that leave things in a mish-mashed state: the system showing disarmed in the cloud, but still armed, locally. The developers are aware of it, and are responsive to the importance of this being fixed. And SmartThings does have an active core of developers. Extrapolate from this, as you will.

I use ST for security, and am generally, quite happy with it. But, as I’ve said elsewhere, I bought into SmartThings hub primarily because of my interest in IoT, not specifically for security. The security was an add-on bonus. I’d like it to be more reliable, but if the reliability issues are mainly focused on triggering an alarm reaction when the home should be disarmed, I’ll continue to use it, and not seek other functionality.

44

Not to mention the new Roku enabled TVs.

It’s really just a way of providing new interfaces for existing cloud services. I doubt that Roku has changed these services just because of the new interface, the way I doubt ST will change its services because of another interface.

More users, on the other hand, can strain cloud services, so this could have impact.

45

Other than different graphics, it isn’t that different than ST. Most of Indigo’s functionality, it’s plug-ins, seem to be developed by the user community. Same applies here.

As for the graphics, meh. Dark, and a little too retro.

46

I think you missed the elephant in the room. Most of TmartThings’ problems are rooted in their cloud-based architecture. Indigo and other PC/Mac based systems are cloud-free and therefore inherently more responsive and reliable.

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47

Exactly. PLUS:

  • AppleScript
  • Fully customizable HTML, so no need for dark graphics. That HTML served from a LAN server!
  • Clear emphasis on iPhones over Android, which reassures me. Samsung buying ST makes me think the reverse will happen here.
48

That’s ironic.

  1. There is zero history of that with ST - in fact iOS enjoys better support. No such history of that with Samsung either.
  2. Apple is the closed eco that seeks to cut others out.
  3. Your desire is for a product that already only supports one, iOS. eg. it’s acceptable as long as it’s the ‘Other’ system that gets left out / cut out.:wink:
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49

My real #1 desire is for something mentioned regarding Indigo over and over, and which no one would think to apply to ST.

Rock solid.

As for the rest, I’ve been a Mac guy since the Mac Plus. So no big there as far as I’m concerned.

50

I do like the local processing.

For HA, Local Processing’s main advantage to me is that I can own the system end to end and faster processing. Disadvantage of cloud is privacy, but it doesn’t bother me that much with HA.

In fact, I would love Openhab - but I am afraid it doesn’t fit my midlife / children / very busy day job lifestyle to tackle the deep deep technical challenges. So I have to find a balance between openness / functionality / easy to use.

Now Cloud everything or product as a service everything is all leagues of f’in annoying to me. I won’t do cloud bound cameras, period. This cuts out a huge swath of otherwise nice products. Combine that with the fact most of that crap is product as an ongoing service as well. No thanks. You suck. Your product as a service bs sucks. I don’t want my cameras recording in your cloud.

Indigo won’t be it for me at this time, they would need a much more significant user base for one - fear of it going under / dropping all development is HUGE in this space in general. If it became awesome and had a lot of market momentum behind it, I may consider it even though I dislike the mac/apple only approach very much, but alas it does not as far as I can tell so it’s a non-starter here @ JH1’s household.

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51

All controllers, including indigo, have pluses and minuses.

With regards to indigo, there’s still a limited command set. For example, there is no support for Zwave locks. None. That won’t matter at all to some people. It will matter a lot to others. You might be able to use the Insteon locks, to be honest I’m not sure.

On the other hand, indigo has much better support than SmartThings for Zwave scene management. But that’s using zwave specific scene commands. You won’t be able to mix Hue bulbs and zwave switches into the same scene that way you can with SmartThings. Again, it won’t matter at all to some people, but it will matter a lot to others.

Indigo has no Harmony integration that I’m aware of. Again, very important for some people (including me), unimportant to others.

Indigo’s notifications are more limited than SmartThings’ although there are some third-party plug-ins and you can experiment to see if you get what you want.

Indigo has not yet fully implemented Zwave plus support. Last time I looked, they didn’t do remote inclusion, although that should change eventually.

But as @geko mentioned, it’s definitely quick and reliable for management of zwave devices. So it will be good for some people, not others, as is always the case. :sunglasses:

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52

Thank you for correction. I understand it’s home-server-based. But it’s still dependent on the cloud for accessing at least some of the devices I see listed. For instance, I checked out the code for the plug-in for Nest—it must access services via Nest’s internet-based interface.

We’re conflating cloud with local control and making an implication that one is more reliable than the other. That’s not necessarily true. The one point of failure—lack of internet access—may impact on both types of systems, depending on allowable access via device manufacturer.

And we’re making assumptions that ST performs all functionality via the cloud. I’ve not seen this to be true when we’ve accidentally triggered the security system.

I am sure it’s a fun system to work with, but it’s specific to the Mac, doesn’t seem to have a nice Echo interface (also cloud-based), requires leaving your Mac running, and not something I would recommend for the non-tech.

And it’s too dark, and the interface is meh.

But fewer people on the ST cloud, more resources for the rest of us…so go for it!

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53

For those commenting on Indigo’s dark interface: That’s my design (I bought the icons and such, so it’s really more accurate to say it’s my arrangement.) You can design your control pages to look absolutely any way you like. It’s a drag-and-drop, click-and-configure operation, very simple.

Someone commented that you can’t mix something like Hue and Zwave devices in the same scene with Indigo. That’s incorrect. You can mix and match to your heart’s content and execute it all with a single click or touch. You simply build the list of actions you want to execute; this is called an Action Group. Each of those actions can be via any interface you like, from Hue to Zwave to iTunes to direct WiFi control of a DirecTV receiver to you-name-it. You can build in delays between steps if you like.

The manufacturer offers only iOS on the mobile front, but there’s also an excellent Android app from a third party.

@mdawson - ST was an impulse buy for me, and my first HA buy. I grew disillusioned pretty quickly when I discovered everything you do has to run through the cloud. That got worse when I discovered it was intended purely for operation from a mobile device. My “vision” of HA had always been computer-based. My day job is very technical and is spent on computers, so transitioning to a computer-based model was easy and natural for me. Sure, it took a little time to learn the app, but no more than it would take to learn anything else with such granular control and options.

I bought a Z-Wave interface called Z-Stick from Aeon Labs, which looks like an oversized thumbdrive; I think it was ~$40. I plugged it in, Indigo saw it, and I started pairing devices. Then I added a Global Cache WiFi-to-IR adapter, and set up control of all my IR devices. Then the various “virtual devices,” like iTunes, weather plugin, etc. In the screenshot below, you can see some of the plugins listed and infer what a lot of them do. I’m not using it at anything close to its potential. Any of these interfaces, whether Z-Wave or SMS or email or IFTTT or whatever, can be used as triggers and/or actions.

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54

SmartThings’ so called “local processing” is nothing but a sham, at least for the time being. Yes few devices may be able to communicate with each other via the hub, bypassing the cloud, but it will never have true local command and control. The mobile app can only talk to the cloud. As a result, your alarm system can trigger when the Internet is down, but you won’t be able to disarm it, not from the app anyway. That’s a sham.

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55

SmartThings is not a security system and has never declared that it was.
First off, security systems have to be UL approved as such.
SmartThings is a Home Automation Hub that can work with dedicated security panels like Honeywell, Elk etc.
Monitoring intrusion, fire, water, and low low temperature alarms should always be done through a proper alarm panel and monitoring service. SmartThings should only be used as a secondary monitoring and notification system.
I have two large (60+) Z-Wave lighting systems with V1 hubs installed and two small systems with V2 hubs (25 devices).
Apart from the recent maintenance hangups on the V2 hubs that required rebooting, the systems work flawlessly with non tech users. The smartapps and routines work as specified. User interface is handled with TheHomeRemote, presence with iPhones. One ov the clients has two homes on the same account and can access both from his iPad with the homeremote application.
Before diving into SmartThings, a bit of homework is required in order to use it efficiently.

56

Actually, their marketing department frequently presents it as such. “Security” is the first category on the website under “Uses.”

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UL listing is a good idea, and required by many insurance companies before they will give a discount, but it is not required by law in the US in order for something to be advertised or sold as a “security system.”

I am happy to hear that SmartThings has worked well for you and hope that it continues to do so. But that is not true for everyone, including a number of customers who are technically quite sophisticated. Some of the issues have to do with where one lives, some are just bad luck, some, like the current problems with Sonos, are configuration (but not the customer’s fault).

Submitted with respect.

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57

I’m not seeing many problems with my set up at all. Maybe because I use it mainly for lighting. There’s a few smart lighting features that I think are missing, but overall Smart Things, along with Echo, perform effectively for me. It’s super annoying during a rare platform issue but I don’t feel bitter about my purchase at all. It’s nice to have lights come on at sunset and I hope to include motion sensors soon.

Perhaps it’s because I’m not paying attention, but you don’t really hear much about other hubs similar to Smart Things. Isn’t Wink nearly dead at this point?

58

On the security side, which is what the 0P mentioned, there are lots of options: abode (new), ADT, frontpoint, piper, scout, simplisafe, Xfinity… Just depends what you’re looking for.

On the Home Automation side, again, many options, some with more protocols than SmartThings, some with fewer. ADT Pulse, Fibaro, Homeseer, indigo, Insteon, Lowe’s Iris, PEQ, Staples Connect, Vera, Xfinity Home, Wink, Zipato. With HomeKit offering a few options now, and more in the future.

The ones that are most similar to SmartThings in that they support both zwave And Zigbee and have a DIY hub are Iris (but has a $10/month fee), Staples Connect, Wink, and Zipato.

In the “coming soon” category, Vera has been a leading Zwave controller in both the US and Europe for several years. They’ve now announced midFebruary delivery for their new VeraPlus hub ($149) which has Zwave, Zigbee, and Bluetooth. We’ll see if they hit their target date.

Insteon currently relies on its own powerline devices, but has announced three new hubs: one for HomeKit, one for alljoyn, and one for thread. (You can buy the HomeKit version now.) So it’s positioned to be significant no matter which way the market goes.

All have different pluses and minuses, and different specific features. But there’s a lot out there, and more coming. :wink:

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59

Flat out categorically incorrect. On both accounts.

  1. ST specifically declares it is one, even has a monthly service for it.
  2. While having a ul listing is nice and desired by many, they don’t get to define what is or is not a security system for all. Ul is a private organization. They do not own rights, trade mark or otherwise, on the term security system.
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60

Wow. How utterly condescending.

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61

My perspective…

My first venture into Home Automation was with WeMo for about a week – that was a total disaster.

I have only been using SmartThings for about a week. I have to say that I am totally amazed.

Granted it is very early and I only have a few simple devices, but everything has worked flawlessly - devices have paired correctly, I can view the real system configuration, and develop software as needed.

I tried to flash an LED bulb, and ran in to inconsistent flashing behavior, but considering what has to be done in order to make that happen I am not surprised at the consistent results.

As software moves down to the local hub, I’m sure things will improve.

Barry.

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62

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