Need 3 HUB's , which ones to get


#1

I need 3 hub is my house to increase range of picking up Z-Wave devices. Every where I want to put I Hub I have an Ethernet hook up. So I don’t want these working over Wi-Fi. It is really confusing to try and figure out how the hubs work, it looks like they all go over Wi-Fi and that isn’t what I want.


(Jimmy) #2

You don’t need a hub to increase range. Just a mains powered device.


(Bryan) #3

What he said . . .

Zwave devices that are connected to your mains (house) power often act as Zwave repeaters. So even plugging in some Zwave outlets that also act as repeaters throughout the house may solve your problem.

What sort of Zwave devices are you having issues connecting to the hub with? Battery powered?


#4

I have been through all that. I need another Hub, out building it about 70’ away so I can’t do it through devises, I have already tried. Either they are too far away or too many hops.


#5

Unlike Vera, having an additional smartthings hub doesn’t change the range covered in any way different than just another Z wave repeater device would do. That is, the second SmartThings hub in the mesh WiFi system can act as a zwave repeater for your smartthings zwave network, but that hub still has to be within 1 hop of the next Z wave repeater on your network. So if it’s too far to reach a zwave light switch, it’s too far to reach the second smartthings hub by Z wave. So unfortunately it’s not going to solve your zwave problem. :disappointed_relieved:


(Kevin [Yorkshire UK]) #6

Three hubs will create three independent networks and you will not have control or status updates on Hub A for a device on Hub B. ST has not published any ‘merge hub / devices’ type application. There are many variations for a solution to this like the app from krlaframboise and MQTT but it is not seamless.


#7

So what is the point of the new hub they came out with that is a three pack?


(Dale Richter) #8

That is a Wi-Fi mesh network. It gives you greater Wi-Fi coverage but does nothing for z-wave/zigbee range.


(Jimmy) #9

Well each unit does act as a z-wave and zigbee repeater


(James) #10

I would think the new mesh network device would work for his intended use. He stated he has Ethernet in his out building so it should work. A switch in his out building (z-wave or zigbee) should jump to the closest router and then through his network to do the intended function. But since I don’t know all the tech specs of the new device, I can only assume. To me, it would be pretty stupid if the didn’t design it this way. Which is what mopar_mudder is probably assuming as well. So, I would say get the new mesh router setup.


#11

It’s not stupid: it’s just the way zwave networks work. Each hub is a white plastic box containing multiple radios. There is a Wi-Fi radio, a zwave radio, a zigbee radio. These form three completely independent and separate networks. Z wave messages travel only over the Z wave network, Wi-Fi messages only over the Wi-Fi network. So It doesn’t matter that the Wi-Fi network has a longer range and can reach the out pbuilding. The Z wave radio in the second hub has no more range than any other Z wave device in the same location. The zwave messages don’t get to hitch a ride on the Wi-Fi network. They only get sent to other Z wave devices on the same network that are within zwave range.

So using the multi pod Wi-Fi system from SmartThings doesn’t give you Wi-Fi range for your Z wave messages. The second hub is just a Z wave repeater as far as your Z wave network goes. Again, no different than any other Z wave devices you might put in that location.

There is an FAQ in the community – created wiki on automating an outbuilding that discusses some of the options that you have. But the Wi-Fi mesh system from smartthings doesn’t change any of those options.

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Automate_an_Outbuilding


(James) #12

I fully understand how these radios work and how the repeaters work. I would agree with you except for one thing, this is an integrated hub/wifi mesh network. They are advertising it as both wifi and hub. There is no technical reason that a hub located in his outbuilding can’t receive a z-wave action, and either independently act or relay it “through the network just like our hubs do now” to whichever device they want to call the “main” hub. For them to develop a new hub and integrate it into a wifi mesh system in this day and age and NOT have it accomplish this, IS STUPID.


#13

It does relay through the network just like the hubs do now – – at exactly the same range as the hubs do now. It’s a Z wave repeater for the primary hub’s zwave network. So if he can’t get a zwave message from the main building to the outbuilding, having the second hub in the outbuilding doesn’t help. But if he can get a zwave message to the second hub, it will work like any other Z wave repeater. There’s nothing unusual in this.


(James) #14

I’m not sure if we’re talking about how the new wifi/hub does work or how it should work. I am talking about how it should work. (today…with the ET-WV525BWEGUS…with a 2 or 3 pack) And IMHO, it is a shame and stupid if the new system can not take a command at any of the three hubs and act upon them independently. There is technically no reason they should not be able to do this.

It’s even advertised as “Works as a SmartThings Hub”. Furthermore, as we all know… Painfully, I might add, this is mostly cloud-connected. So it is only logical for one to assume that a hub, connected to the same network, wifi or Ethernet, is going to send any and all signals it receives to the cloud. Provided it can’t act upon the request itself.

Let’s say I have a home that’s 4000sqft. I buy a ET-WV525BWEGUS and set it up at the far end west wing. I set it up as my SmartThings hub. Several months later, I have decided I am going to buy another ET-WV525BWEGUS for the east wing because I can’t get wifi there and I have 20 zigbee and z-wave devices I want to add in the east wing. When I attach the second ET-WV525BWEGUS, there is no technical reason that hub can’t see I have another hub on the network and decide it will now handle device requests it receives. If I add a third ET-WV525BWEGUS, same thing. All the ET-WV525BWEGUS are capable of being a hub, so the hardware is there to handle local and cloud actions. AND it can communicate this with all the other hubs and the cloud because they are all on the same network. They all have radios for transmitting and receiving z-wave and zigBee. A zigbee device in the east wing should not have to make a jump to the hub in the west wing because there is a perfectly good hub in the east wing. It just comes down to writing the software to make them act this way.


#15

So it sound like I just need to ditch Smarththings and find a system that does what I want. I agree with Expose that it is stupid to not make the individual hubs talk to each other over Ethernet or wifi to extend the range of Z-Wave, seems like it should be pretty simple to do. So this mesh network seems to be pretty pointless for Smarththing so even offer since it really does nothing to help with home automation. Oh well when winter get here I will work on another solution.


(James) #16

JDRoberts is awesome and a wealth of knowledge on here. Im not trying to pick an argument with him. I get what he is saying. We should be talking about zigbee and zwave working as he describes only if you have one hub. In a world where Samsung makes a mesh router system with integrated hubs, this whole repeater discussion should be irrelevant.


(Jimmy) #17

The simplest way to think about it when considering zwave and zigbee radios in these “hubs” is that one is the hub and the others are the same as an Iris 3210-L. They just repeat zwave and zigbee signal. They are a simple repeater. While it would be nice that they communicated zigbee and/or zwave over IP/LAN/WiFi to the other access points, they do not.


#18

Food for thought:

It has been long known and advised to NOT keep your ZWAVE radio (or was that Zigbee?) close to your Wi-Fi access point; in fact, got an issue, move them further away…

Wonder how having all the radios in the same box is going to work out!

J


(James) #19

Again, I have no problem understanding what a repeater is. FYI people, been doing home automation since the very early days of X10 on a VIC-20.
They are not just a simple repeater. There is one sku for the ET-WV525BWEGUS. They are all hubs. They all have capability beyond just repeating. It’s not like your going to buy a 3 pack and have one labeled “main hub” and the rest have less hardware. If one of the 3 receives a signal and needs to act upon that signal by turning on a switch that is beyond it’s range, there is no reason it can’t have a closer hub send the signal. Or better yet, have all 3 send the signal to turn the switch on. This is EXACTLY what happens when you use your mobile device 1000 miles away on a beach in Jamaica and have your hub turn on the light. Why is this so freaking hard to understand? I’m not saying this is what is currently designed to happen in the new system. I am saying there is no good reason it can’t and shouldn’t.