Migrating from SmartThings to Vera Plus

General Discussion
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ad, the report I posted is just output from the Vera Interface…you can’t do anything with it, other than evaluate all of your PLEG information on one page with times, status, etc. I believe you did something similar in CORE. The two html report/status pages just make debugging a whole lot easier than looking at RAW Vera logs via SSH.

There are quite a few things ST could take from a competitive analysis of VERA. The ease of restoring a box from backup, or migrating to a new box are two very nice features. I’ve had to restore the box once after doing something silly in code…only took a few minutes.

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So if the Internet goes down or Vera goes down can you access the hub? You are still dependent on the cloud in that situation. I still question the security of it since its most likely a redirect out unless you have a cookie/token.

Right now through smart lighting I have 95%+ of my automation executing locally, lots of motion triggers. When ST goes off line the only thing I really lose is the ability to control SHM. If I was going to jump ship I would want 100% local control and access.

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The hub would still work, as would all your automations if the web was down, and you had “secured” the box. I’m pretty sure SSH access on port 22 (which would require a username/password would work fine if you needed to program while the web was down and wanted to toggle LAN access again. In this case, the password for root access is unique to each box…I believe it’s serial number printed on the bottom of the unit.

There’s a more comprehensive read here: http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Security_Concerns

“On the Users tab, you can create user names and passwords and check the box “Require a username and password to access Vera from within my home network.” This means that even for people within the home, a username and password will be required. This makes Vera as secure as most any other IP device on your home network that requires a username or password. But that is not truly secure. Unlike the FindVera service which uses special encryption like online banking (SSL), you don’t have any special encryption on your home network. So, if somebody hacked into your home network and was able to monitor your network traffic while you logged into Vera, someone who knew about network protocols could get your user username and password to Vera.”

So there are several options to “secure” the box depending on your needs.

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I don’t read that in anything @denwood is posting. What am I missing?

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You get routed to the public facing login page (https://home.getvera.com/users/login I believe).

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My Asus router has a password protected guest network access

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There is an option to secure Vera plus and only allow it accessible via the cloud relay. However, I don’t see home network access a vulnerability as much as a huge feature. Just me. Still have to log in to it.

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Agree 100%. Local access, local processing and the ability to integrate DSC, Ecobee3 and it turns out PLEG, is why I’m using Vera. I use ST at home…and have fun with it. We’ve cut our home hydro bills a surprising 28% since adding ST automation. At the business, the Vera driven savings were in the order of 12% on hydro ( a lot more since we upgraded to LED lighting in the building last week) and 25% during the heating season.

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As a long term Vera user and ST since the launch of the V2 hub I just wanted to re-iterate that my Vera experience has been, and still is just as frustrating as my experience with ST, but in different ways. Don’t feel that Vera is going to magically banish those pulling your hair out moments. The same BTW with Fibaro HC2.

In dealing with both companies I have always felt that ST was more professional and would always eventually get there whereas at times I’ve wondered if Vera was still going. They seem to have way less resources, going quiet for months on end. Both forums have their share of dissatisfied users , often key contributors, deserting in search of greener grass.

However the nature of Vera is that you are not at the mercy of the cloud architecture and can usually work around issues . This often requires that you are able to code in LUA. So as a techie enthusiast Vera suits me better as I have a reasonable ability to get down and dirty with Lua and Vera is just one of several controllers in my HA setup. The majority of my automation is IP rather than Z-Wave/ZigBee based and Vera can be used for local implementation of this communication. ST is much more polished in its cloud integrations

So for those with a more technical bias I think Vera suits well but for those after an HA appliance that just works I think both are currently equally disappointing, albeit improving sloooowly.

Sadly that ‘just works’ experience that the home automation mass market expects and indeed deserves remains elusive in all products currently. Technical failings, lack of agreements and standards along with competitive and commercial issues are all formidable obstacles that are wrong footing everyone and show few signs of diminishing.

Home Automation really still requires you are a technical enthusiast - with endless patience and an understanding wife.

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^^^^ What he said :slight_smile: Both systems have required me to “get under the hood” way more than I expected to get things done. Vera made it easier to get under the hood…and it’s worked reliably for us.

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Yes sir.

I think ST’s entry had a perception of be able to be that game changer. The first entry that could make it happen.

Clearly that isn’t the case.

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It would still have full access to your network. While easier to create temporary passwords, does not necessarily mitigate the risk.

@pstuart
For something that controls locks, garage doors, temps I disagree its a feature. Do you not password protect your servers/routers even though they are only accessible on the LAN? Using the cloud relay you are still dependent on the cloud.

While many people here are technical enough to properly mitigate some risk, the average consumer is not and leaves them vulnerable. If I only had a few lights on it I probably wouldn’t care.

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Well said! :sunglasses:

I would just modify the following point slightly:

Home Automation really still requires you are a technical enthusiast - with endless patience

I would say instead:

inexpensive full-featured Home Automation really still requires you are a technical enthusiast - with endless patience

Which is to say I don’t think you have to be a technical enthusiast to get a stable satisfying experience from either the very high-end systems like control 4 or the ones with a monthly fee like Xfinity home. But you are paying significant fees for that stability, ones that are well outside of my budget.

We also should acknowledge that the monthly fee midrange systems like Xfinity home have literally millions of customers now, for a total that is probably 4 to 5 times that of the DIY systems and growing. Yes, it costs $40 a month, but there are many willing customers at that price point.

Also, if you’re only looking for a few features, in particular just lighting or just a doorlock, there are a number of stable low-cost offerings, including Phillips hue, August lock, Lutron Caseta. These are mostly “set and forget” devices. They don’t require constant tinkering.

Smartthings, Vera, Insteon, Homeseer, Fibaro–these are trying to provide a control 4 experience at 3 to 5% of the upfront cost and with no monthly fee. That’s the problem that no one has cracked yet.

Personally, I had high hopes for SmartThings because of the Samsung tie-in. If it could function as a value add feature for Samsung’s high-end appliances and televisions, and the rest of us could come along for the ride, it might deliver much more than its DIY Price point would imply. I think to a large extent that has been true. I certainly don’t think SmartThings has been turning a profit over the last year.

It remains to be seen whether the television–based version of SmartThings gets stripped down to something much more limited in features but with more stability, or whether they really can get this horse to sing. We’ll see. :wink:

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Actually, it allows me to create an entirely separate guest network that is isolated from the rest of the network.

The Asus firmware actually is very nice in the features it gives you, especially for security.

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Thats not too shabby. I am planning on replacing my router soon, so I may need to bump Asus up in consideration.

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I have an Asus68rt and am very happy with it also. I loaded ddwrt on it as well.

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Yes that’s very valid. I don’t know Xfinity but I do know the higher end Crestron/AMX/Savant/Control4 market quite well. Paradoxically they usually alienate technical enthusiasts as customers because they restrict the system to specific device / peripheral support (often their own OEM branding) and the functionality presented. Quite rightly so as every nuance of the system can then be anticipated and catered for leading to near 100% dependability.

They all prefer local wired connectivity falling back on radio or IR only when no alternative exists. Cloud is typically a secondary service for things like music streaming etc. The enthusiast feels shut out for ongoing expansion due to the mandatory dealer involvement and cost.

It’s tough to see how things will improve for the enthusiast but I still have reasonable hopes that if some ‘open’ controller supplier like ST can fill the void with a sufficiently large installed base then the accessory device market will feel the need to be supported and ensure compatibility. The build a better mousetrap approach. ST is backed enough for this positioning, Vera isn’t unless acquired.

My concern is that I think the ST dependence on a cloud architecture is fundamentally flawed and the hub underpowered, so this mousetrap isn’t the version we need. There are also commercial ‘closed’ intentions, expecting there not to be is naive and unrealistic.

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This is the one I have as well… Asus puts out firmware updates quite often… And the mobile app is really nice.

I do like the feature for the built in cloud if you plug in a hard drive…

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This community always pays off. Didn’t realize they had an app, hadn’t searched in a while. Love my Asus and now it’s even better. Best firmware, freshest, and really nice app. Yay!

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I especially like the option of killing internet access to a specific device within the app… For the teens…

1440×2560 1.9 MB

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