Depends on your definition of technical. That said, if you don’t want to directly edit YAML files HA likely isn’t the solution for you. (Yes most of it is configured in UI but it’s also an open source project and there will always be that 10% of contributors who still do it the ‘old way’
The author of the article does kind of glaze over that and doesn’t talk about the downsides of moving a Hue environment to Zigbee2MQT, but yes the SkyConnect looks to be shaping up to be a really nice device once it’s past the ‘beta implementation’ I say beta because there’s really three considerations at the moment
1: The SkyConnect hardware. - I think we’re through the dev phase on this part but it is new hardware and people find issues all the time.
2: The Zigbee side of the radio - Seems solid for the most part (suffers from the same kind of issues other ZigBee coordinator sticks seem to suffer from, and subject to the same interference issues. It does have the complication that HA wants to migrate any existing sticks to this when you install it - and it may cause issues for someone who doesn’t know what’s going on. Needs some UI love for that process, it’s a little utilitarian…
3: Matter side of the radio - HA is still VERY early in Matter support. You can only do it on certain install types - with certain hardware points at the SkyConnect Enabling it means you enable multiprotocol support on the device and the radio now does double duty. Some have reported issues with Zigbee when in multiprotocol mode - but honestly it’s hard to tell if that’s just normal ZigBee issues or if its something new with the SkyConnect stick in MP mode.
SO - lets just say it’s complex? And maybe not everyone’s cup of tea… But, wont lie if it IS for you - it’s light years more flexible and expandable…
In the process, however, I broke half of the stuff in my home. Nothing works, and I could not be happier.
Classic “Tinkerer/hobbyist“ approach. People who love seeing new ways to do things, even if they don’t actually work. And who like seeing all the internal processes exposed. They value transparency very highly even if something is more challenging to understand and install.
Then there are the “problemsolvers.” People who have a real world problem they want to solve, and who don’t care if it’s a blackbox solution as long as it does work. They value their own time very highly and will pay more in money and even give up some features as long as they get the critical functionality up and running smoothly with a minimum of effort.
Neither group is better than the other: they are just different ways of thinking about home automation.
For the people who value transparency and the ability to build very complex projects, home assistant is great.
For the people who want quick and easy solutions to simple practical problems, not so much.
For me, i woild not mind trying it out but i know it will require time which i just dont have. Im staying with samsung with my fingers crossed. I may add hubitat for zwave but i am hoping aeotech supports it in its future hub… if they ever make one.
Hmmm…does SmartThings require a hub or that promised television dongle to support Matter? Or can you just use the app as a Matter Controller? (Technically possible with android devices, but I haven’t seen one released yet.)
At first I thought the station would only be needed for people who wanted Thread devices, but now I’m not sure.
Say you had the SmartThings app because you have a Samsung robot vacuum and a Galaxy phone. Could you add a Meross WiFi (not Thread) Matter-compatible smart plug without using the brand-specific cloud to cloud integration?
I think it does. If you want to be able to control the device from outside your home you will need a Matter controller that provides a user interface (like the Smartthings app) that is globally addressable, and then send local IP packets to the Matter wifi device from a local hub. And of course the local hub has an outbound connection to the cloud infrastructure so your hub doesn’t have a “direct” interface to the internet.
I suspect (haven’t done a network trace to prove it) that when you onboard with the Smartthings Android app that only bluetooth discovery is done on the Android device, otherwise network discovery packets come from the local ST hub onto the local network and the responses are reflected back to the cloud where the ST app shows the results.
I think in the case of ST that all of the certificates needed for encryption/communication are kept on the ST hub since the hub needs those to communicate with the Matter devices (even Thread devices going thru a Thread Border Router) even when the external internet connection is disrupted. Maybe Samsung is keeping a copy of those certificates in the cloud for backup purposes, but that might be a security exposure so maybe not.
I’m thinking that in general the assumption is that all Matter controllers will be hub based so there will always be a permanent local device other than your phone/onboarding device to control the Matter devices.
Of course that local device may be something like a Google Nest hub or Alexa device, but those are just hubs from other manufacturers of Matter controllers.
I forgot to address this comment - are you thinking that when you on board a Meross Matter plug to ST that it is cloud-to-cloud? It isn’t - Matter is purely local IP for the device, it’s the controllers that do any cloud work. So when you use multi-admin with a Matter wifi device the Matter controller (Smartthings hub) will talk to the Matter device using local IP only.
When the Matter device is on boarded Smartthings will verify that the device and manufacturer data that it gets from the device is valid (i.e. make it hard to create a “pirate/trojan-horse” device) with the CSA servers (which is why manufactures must be registered with the CSA).
I think the only time ST may talk to Meross is if ST is going to support over-the-air firmware device updates. I think the way that happens is that a Matter controller can contact the CSA server and get the URL of the software update binaries and can fetch those and push them to the Matter devices (even Thread devices via a Thread Border Router). At least I think that’s what I’m seeing in the Matter spec. I don’t remember seeing anything from ST about supporting firmware updates with Matter (it’s an optional feature).
I believe he was querying whether the SmartThings app itself could act as a matter controller, using a Meross WiFi Matter-compatible smart plug as a specific example where, if the app were a matter controller, it wouldn’t be necessary to use the existing Meross C2C integration.
I’d rather assumed a matter controller would need to be a permanently connected locally device to be useful and so the answer would be no.
The “to be useful” depends on the specific needs and preferences of the individual user.
For example, the old domotics and the original Vera systems were entirely local, but didn’t have apps. You couldn’t access them from outside the home, but they did run lights and locks on schedules and automations.
And in current systems, you CAN run Apple HomeKit without a hub, using only an iPhone, without an Internet connection. But basically all you get are device tiles and you can only use them while that phone is on the same Wi-Fi network. To set up even your first automation, however, simple, you have to add a HomeKit hub (a HomePod or an Apple TV box). (You can also use an always plugged in iPad as a HomeKit hub with the original architecture, but not with the newest version.)
Or for another current example, you can use the Wiz Bluetooth smart bulbs without any hub – – but then they only work when your phone is at home. But they do work then and provide more sophisticated automation than HomeKit without a hub. The logic is all handled by the phone app.
However: both Apple and Google are going to require that users have their hub in place in order to onboard even a Wi-Fi matter device.
So I was curious if smartthings has the same requirement: something more than just an app to act as a matter controller.
I just haven’t seen an announcement from Samsung one way or the other.
I think it would be fairly simple to for the smart refrigerator and the Samsung smart television could act as matter controllers. But what about someone who just has galaxy mobile devices, maybe, including earbuds and trackers. So more than just the phone, but not much more. Will they be able to add a Matter Wi-Fi device and get a device tile for it when they are home and the phone is on the same Wi-Fi network? Or will they need to also add the Station or another hardware based matter controller?
It does indeed, if it is the individual user determining if it is useful. If it is SmartThings deciding if it would be a useful thing to implement the considerations might be different.
I found one app-only Matter controller: the LG ThinQ app.
Although normally used to control the LG smart appliances, in 2022 they added the ability to use it as a UI for HomeKit devices as well. It was sort of a weird integration because you couldn’t add the appliances to HomeKit or HomeKit Automations. But if you wanted to be able to see your HomeKit light switches and your LG smart appliances in the same app, now you could.
And they are using the same architecture for matter. The app is itself certified as a matter controller, no LG hub required.
So it looks like smartthings could go that direction, but I don’t know if they are going to.
At least at the moment, it seems that a hub is required. I have the Wi-Fi hub (Plume) and when I tried to add a Matter device, the ST app said I didn’t have a Matter capable hub. Once my fridge was updated to 45.11, I was able to add Matter devices to that hub, even without the dongle (although there are bugs that don’t allow the app to control them). Once I added a dongle, I got Zigbee support, but it looks like another firmware update will be needed to get Thread and Border Router support.
Thanks for the info. I knew you could do it, but I wondered what would drive a manufacturer to implement an at the location only app. I better understand your musing about Smartthings/Samsung, since they have hub-less appliances, then a hub environment where they no longer manufacture the hubs. So is Smartthings/Samsung going hub or hub-less? Why not both?
Matter is running into a number of “directions” for home automation:
Hub-less. Lots of people don’t want to do all of the setup and admin - they want the intuitive app experience. AND, they don’t like the initial cost hit of buying a hub for that manufacturer (looking at Philips Hue here of course).
Local execution. Tends to be for the group that is Ok with setup and admin, but wants to fix the issues of speed, availability, and maybe internet disruption.
Local for security reasons. Does anyone enjoy talking to people from infosec/sec-admin - paranoid much are you? But the reality is home automation is probably Swiss cheese as far as security goes.
Thread/Zwave/Zigbee to keep home automation off of your “real” network.
So, yeah, it is interesting to see what comes out. I checked out ThinQ after you mentioned it, and I see that LG was really just wanting to address the white appliance market and maybe did NOT want to get painted into the corner that Samsung did by having to provide a large cloud presence for a device that no one want to pay a subscription fee in order to keep the home automation running. It’s also not all that popular with many people saying all they really use/want is notification that the washer/dryer are finished or having a problem.
I wonder if the white appliance market will go Matter and leave it to Google/Apple/Amazon - but now Google and Amazon are wondering if THEY want to run the large cloud infrastructure for a product that can’t generate revenue.
The vast majority of smartthings customers do not have a hub. That will probably continue.
A very small percentage are power users, who want a multi protocol hub. That’s the majority of the people on this forum, of course.
And then it feels like there’s likely to be an in between group, maybe the people who currently have a Philips hue bridge and a Samsung smart television. And they read about matter and want to add a few devices. And Samsung has just introduced the Station for them.
yes you would, mainly for the radios in the example of z-wave, zigbee, etc. But a Matter Controller can be software based, like the LG example. I think the SmartThings Android (and maybe iOS?) app is also a certified Matter controller even without a ST hub. We need to find someone without a ST hub and see if they can onboard a Matter over wifi device…
I have an Android phone and the Wi-Fi (Plume) hub. When I attempted to add a Wi-Fi Matter device, the ST app said I did not have a Matter capable hub. If the ST app can be a Matter controller without a hub, seems like it would have been enrolled to my phone. It wasn’t.
ah, interesting. Looking at the official FAQ, it does indeed look like a ST Hub is required to be a Matter Controller with only the V2, V3 and Aeotec hub being supported currently.
