Haptique RS90 and RS90X universal remote (kickstarter)

note: as pointed out in the article → it’s merely a Kickstarter hopeful for now. Based in France. no matter support.

You can buy the SwitchBot remote now, and it’s offering some matter over bridge functions.

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Hello,

I am the founder of Cantata>Haptique. We just published an update the we will support Matter on RS90x. Also Smartthings integrations coming soon to both RS90 &90x. You may ask me anything here or on bonjour@cantatacs.com.

Thank you

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Welcome! :sunglasses:

As an engineer, I typically don’t comment on Devices until you can order them for next day delivery from Amazon. Everything else pre-release is aspirational design goals, And it’s hard to predict exactly what will be delivered. (Hardware is hard.)

But given that caveat, since your device is still pre-release, how would you say your aspirational design goals Compare to the existing switchbot universal remote, which can be ordered now?

In other words, what are you hoping to deliver that would specifically be an improvement over the switchbot device?

Also, when you say it will “support matter“ can you be more specific? Do you intend to support matter one way in like the flic hub, so that your remote acts as a “”matter controller“ and can thus control some third party devices that themselves support matter?

Or do you intend to support matter one way out like the Switchbot hub 2, so that your remote could be added to a matter controller like a SmartThings Station hub, and then used as a button device on that platform?

(For people in this forum, “matter bridge“ capabilities are the most important, but for the typical mass market customer, “matter controller“ support might be a more important selling point.)

So that’s three questions:

  1. intended comparison to the SwitchBot universal remote, using current design specs (with the understanding that what actually gets delivered might be different). In other words, what would make your device worth waiting for compared to what’s currently available?

  2. Will it be a “matter controller”?

  3. Will it be a “matter bridge“?

Thanks!

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Hello,

Our product Haptique is a front end device just like a smartphone app.

We will be implementing Google Home SDK in our UI which is an app running on an Android based hardware. You will need a bridge in this case but it this lets you control Matter devices just like any other controller app.

switchbot universal remote, which can be ordered now? - I dont think you can order this yet.

switchbot universal remote, which can be ordered now? - We are AV guys into business since 2013. We have been executing Crestron, Kramer etc for residential projects. We are bringing this experience to consumer domain. With Haptique you can control your environment with or without any smart hub. We are developing integration with commonly used multimedia and lighting brands which will let you control them locally. Philips Hue, Home Assistant are already working and this week we will be releasing Denon, Yamaha integrations too. Haptique has all the capabilities a smartphone has it features, custom sequences, macros(combination of sequences), quick button(device individual controls), Infrared databased over 6000+ brands(update pending). In coming future will also introduce our local controller which will let developers create integration in their desire coding environment.

You can order this now, it is expected to ship this week. Several of the Home Automation bloggers already have review copies.

The bundle which includes the SwitchBot hub two is also In stock now at Amazon for the usual two day delivery. (Wonderlabs is the company that makes SwitchBot products, and this is their official offering at Amazon.)

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This statement contradicts your previous comment about your matter support. At least you would need a “bridge“ device, as you said:

We will be implementing Google Home SDK in our UI which is an app running on an Android based hardware. You will need a bridge in this case but it this lets you control Matter devices just like any other controller app.

Also, controlling matter devices only requires a “matter controller.“ I also asked the question about “bridge“ functions, but it sounds like you won’t be supporting that functionality. It’s understandable, a lot of platforms don’t, but you can expect to be asked the question anytime you just say “we support matter.“

  1. Bringing matter-certified devices into your own app is being a “matter controller.“

  2. Being able to add your remote to other matter-certified platforms as a button device is a different kind of functionality. Using matter terminology, with this functionality your remote would be called a “matter device,“ not just a “matter controller.”

  3. And adding your remote to other matter-certified platforms and having it bring along some of the devices that it controls is being a “matter bridge.”

As I mentioned, different companies are choosing to offer different functionality in this regard, but if you want to say that you are going to “support matter,” you should understand those three different types of functions and know which ones you are going to support.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cantata/haptique-rs90-a-true-universal-remote-controller/posts/4129811

Making a matter bridge is not possible in our system Architecture and we are clear on this, there is no contradiction as we only annouced that Haptique will be a Matter controller in our official KS update.

Any user can have Google Home Mini and have the Matter bridge functionality. Our extenders which will be coming out later this year will have Matter compatibility and can be used without Haptique.

Sorry, but that is not true.

Google Home Mini is a Matter Controller, but NOT a Matter Bridge.

A Matter Controller handles individually-certified Matter devices coming IN to the controller’s platform.

A Matter Bridge handles bridging non Matter certified devices (typically Zigbee or Bluetooth) OUT to other platforms.

Amazon Alexa, Google Home, and Apple HomePod mini all function as Matter Controllers. None of these function as Matter Bridges.

The SwitchBot Hub 2 is a Matter Bridge.

The Aqara M3 is both a Matter Controller (one way in) and a Matter Bridge (one way out), but is in early release and so far only works for a few device classes.

I know Matter can be quite confusing these days, Particularly with different companies being at different stages of their support, but as a device provider, it will be helpful to both you and potential customers if you can learn these distinctions as they are very important in terms of the everyday user experience.

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I checked this video and at 3:02 and it says you need HomePod mini/Apple TV to use Matter. So it is clear it needs a Matter Bridge from outside.

What I understood is Matter support here means Non Matter Switchbot devices are exposed to Matter controllers such as Homekit and can be controlled via their Hub. That’s all.

So, for an example you have Aeotec Matter device - it will not be detected by Switchbot Hub.
Our comparison to a hub is not right as we are a front end device and can work without hub as our IP integrations such as Home Assistant, Philips Hue and the roadmap we are following is straight to the Haptique so we can say you do not need a hub. But if we do not have a working Integration, we will support third party hubs like Home Assistant, Smartthings, Homey pro etc.

Actually, at least as of today, the kickstarter page you linked to says only that you will be a “matter app.” It does not use any of the three terms from the matter specification: “matter controller, “matter bridge, “or “matter device.”

“Matter app” is not an official term in the matter specification.

I know this may all seem very pedantic, and as an engineer, it is true that I often care a lot about things that other people don’t care about at all. :thinking:

But you are posting in a forum for people using the Samsung SmartThings ™ Home Automation platform. Members here expect to use SmartThings as their primary app in most cases. Smartthings hubs are matter controllers, but they are not matter bridges. So when the members of this community are looking at devices like yours, they are generally looking for something which is a “matter bridge“ so that it can be brought into the SmartThings app and used there as a button remote, as well as potentially bringing in some devices Otherwise not available.

It is not possible to tell from your Kickstarter page whether this would work, but my understanding from your comments here is that it will not. There won’t be any way to combine, say, a Z wave light switch directly connected to a SmartThings hub to your remote. That switch doesn’t use matter, the SmartThings hub is not a matter bridge, and it sounds like your remote can only control individually certified matter devices.

So that’s the main reason I’m trying to get all the tiny details. Those are the aspects that will define whether your product is likely to be of interest to the people in this community or not. :man_shrugging:t2:

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But how are you going to do that for SmartThings specifically?

The SmartThings/Aeotec hubs are Matter controllers, but they are NOT Matter bridges. You will not be able to add them to your app using matter.

And it sounds like your remote cannot be added to the SmartThings app either, at least not using Matter.

So I’m confused as to its relevance to the people in this community who are all using SmartThings. Or Are you planning to build a custom integration specifically for SmartThings as some companies do?

(SwitchBot provides both a custom integration specifically built for SmartThings and some matter options because their Hub 2 is a Matter bridge. So people in this community have a choice of two different integrations with SwitchBot. But I’m not sure yet of the details on exactly how the SwitchBot remote is going to work, we haven’t had any community reports on it yet.)

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The video you linked to is from HomeKit News. The comment about the HomePod/Apple TV is specific to the context for using the SwitchBot remote via Matter in the Apple Home app. Those are the “matter controllers” provided for the Apple platform.

If you want to use it via Matter with the Samsung SmartThings platform, then You would not need a HomePod/Apple TV, But you would need a Samsung/Aeotec hub, because those are the matter controllers provided for the SmartThings platform.

This is always true with matter. For any platform that you want to use, you need a “matter controller“ specific to that platform.

Here’s how Tapo explains it to customers interested in buying their matter-certified smart plug:

Because the video that you linked to was intended for people using the Apple Home app, it listed the matter controllers specific to that platform.

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We have Smartthings integration partner from Germany. They take care of integrations with Smartthings. After multiple meetings and exchange of words we concluded to create a smart app in Smartthings which will let us control Smartthings hub over network though it will depend on Internet.

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Thank you, that is very helpful and makes sense. That is how many companies do a SmartThings integration.

(Note that that method does not use Matter at all, but that’s fine. As you note, the main drawback for some people will be that that method does require an active Internet connection, it’s what SmartThings calls a “linked service.” But those are still very popular. For example, that’s how most people use Meross devices with SmartThings.)

That does still leave one question.

There are two ways a device like yours might be used with SmartThings from the customer’s point of view.

  1. Bring SmartThings-connected devices into your app.

If you have a custom “linked services” integration, It could subscribe to information about devices connected to a SmartThings account and you could send requests back to the SmartThings platform. So someone could have a non-matter device like a zwave light switch, but your integration would allow it to be turned on and off with button presses on your remote.

  1. bring your remote into the SmartThings app.

This would allow A SmartThings user to create a SmartThings routine in the SmartThings app and have it use your device as an IR blaster to control a non-matter device In the same room with your remote. For example, they might have a routine that when SmartThings detected that they had arrived home In the evening, the lights would come on, the TV would turn on and switch to a sports program, the thermostat would adjust to their preferred level, and the (preloaded) coffeemaker would start.

Right now there are several IR blasters Which work with SmartThings, although the integrations can be limited. SwitchBot can do some scenes. And the Moes IR blaster works pretty well locally with a custom edge driver.

In these cases, the third-party device shows up in the SmartThings app, and the customer creates their routines in the SmartThings app.

———
So given that your integration will be a custom smartapp offered as a “linked service,” the remaining question that people in this community will want to know is will your remote be able to be added to the SmartThings app as a button device so it can be used as an IR blaster in a routine created in the SmartThings app? Or will your integration be limited to adding SmartThings connected devices to your own app?

Again, thank you for your time and effort in having these discussions. As I’m sure you know, SmartThings is one of the most popular Home Automation platforms in the world. So people in this community are specifically interested in how new devices will work for them as SmartThings users. Sometimes Matter adds new integration possibilities; sometimes it is irrelevant to how a device will integrate with the SmartThings platform. But from a potential customer point of view, the details, are always important. :sunglasses:

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We are glad to share what we are building, and interactions with every community sharing the same goal for smart homes are very important to us.

Regarding the first point, you got it right. We want to import devices from SmartThings, as we also have an IR device database and other smart hubs, as well as IP integrations from where we will import devices. We have a Haptique pool where all the imported devices are brought in, and then commands are used to create sequences. You can create sequences using any of the devices from the pool. For example, one device might be from our IR database, another from SmartThings, and a third from any other integration, all used in the same sequence within Haptique. We also have a parameter called Macros, which is a combination of sequences. You can add multiple sequences to a Macro, and these Macros can be mapped to a UI or a physical button. Later, we will open our APIs for Macros so they can be called from third-party platforms, including voice control.

As mentioned before, we are going to integrate the Google Home SDK for Matter into our UI so we can become a Google Home app capable of handling Matter devices.

Point 2: Instead of adding Haptique (our remote), we have peripherals or endpoints such as IR extenders and RF extenders. We are going to make them work over Matter so they can be directly imported to SmartThings. The use case here will be independent of Haptique. Users will be able to take advantage of our smart plugs, which have IR/RF built-in, and use them within SmartThings or any other platform that supports Matter.

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