Cooper Aspire RF syncing master and auxiliary switches

Devices & Integrations
41

(I am new to all of this, and am surprised at how obtuse it all seems.)

Disbelief:
I can’t get my 4way to behave as I would expect they should in a simple situation.

My 4way dimmers were just installed (1 RF9540-NAW master, 2 RF9542-ZAW accessories). Lets make this easy and pretend that I didn’t actually have a Z-Wave controller… I’d assume the dimmer accessories and master would communicate (over the wire?), and all the switches would turn on/off and dim/status together regardless of which dimmer I was manipulating.

When this 4way went live, they all had the “ready to pair” blue light blinking so I associated them with ST, and they all seem to be peers in ST and in physical manipulation. Can I kick them back into independent mode and have them behave properly? Then tell ST about the master only?

For Later:
My though is that once the above that works, I’ll tackle them controlling some Phillips Hue bulbs. I’ve heard that the bulbs need to be always-on, so I’ll associate the “well behaved” Cooper 4way master with a “Smart Lighting” rule to control the Hue bulbs. The next question would be how to have that Cooper dimmer actually dim the Hue bulb, instead of just being an on/off switch.

42

George, Both of my 9542-Z accessory dimmer level’s end up at the same level as the Master (9540-N) when I follow your 3 step procedure.

1 Like
43

You have to associate the accessory dimmers with the master before you do anything else. That process is completely independent of the ST Hub. The association process is described in this thread. Once you get that working, then you can add the master dimmer to your home hub network.

44

Ok, so even though I have the set hard wired for 4-way, I need the Aeon Labs DSA03202 v1 ?
(Then I’d follow the directions above.)

Actually, what is the remote doing?
Is the association only in the remote? Or can the remote’s battery be removed and the switches will still communicate?

Thanks,
-AAron

45

[quote=“aadhoc229, post:44, topic:10547, full:true”]
Ok, so even though I have the set hard wired for 4-way, I need the Aeon Labs DSA03202 v1 ?
(Then I’d follow the directions above.)[/quote]

The minimote is probably the most cost effective way to perform the associations needed between a Cooper RF master dimmer and the accessory dimmers. Cooper controllers are very expensive. The hard wires you connected only provide a pathway for 110V current to get to your light fixture(s). Association is a z-wave (wireless) function that must be established in order for the dimmers to all work together. Check out the “What is Association” portion of the Cooper ASPIRE RF Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

[quote=“aadhoc229, post:44, topic:10547, full:true”]Actually, what is the remote doing?
Is the association only in the remote? Or can the remote’s battery be removed and the switches will still communicate?[/quote]
The remote acts as a controller to establish the dimmer associations. Once the dimmers all know about each other the remote is no longer needed. You can’t remove the minimote battery as far as I know. It is rechargeable via the USB port. I re-purposed mine to control other devices on my Smart Home HUB.

46

Step 1) Got dimmers associated
I’ve used a minimote to associate the 3 switches of my “4way wiring”.
All 3 dimmers are talking and updating each other regardless of which switch I toggle or dim.
I did notice the minimote lets you associate one-to-several to save some steps. For example:

  1. Enter association mode, toggle Master, toggle Acc1, toggle Acc2, exit association mode.
  2. Enter association mode, toggle Acc1, toggle Master, toggle Acc2, exit association mode.
  3. Enter association mode, toggle Acc2, toggle Acc1, toggle Master, exit association mode.

Step 2) For Later (use in ST)
I’m working through this so I have a helpful post or a concise question.

Thanks the help!

47

The dimmers and the ST app don’t seem to work well together.
In fact the ST App ignores the associations.

NOTE: I started over for clarity. With all 3 dimmers NOT added or associated and in pairing mode (top light blinking), I did the following:

With the minimote…

  1. Added all three to Z-wave network
  2. Created the 6 associations (each with its other two siblings)
  3. Verified all associations work by manually pushing switches.

With ST app…

  1. Went to add the dimmers, saw 3 were not configured
  2. In “Not Yet Configured / Select Dimmer Switch”, I used the on/off buttons for the dimmers…
    2a. Turning an accessory dimmer on/off via the ST app merely turns that ONE dimmer on/off. Associated dimmers did nothing. (So this puts it out of sync with the master.)
    2b. Turning master dimmer on/off via the ST app turned on that ONE dimmer (and the light it was wired to). Associated dimmers did nothing. (So this puts it out of sync with the accessories.)
    2c. Turning a master or accessory dimmers on/off manually generally did not affect the on/off status in ST app. A few times it showed ON when the dimmer was off.

NOTE: I haven’t even configured these dimmers in ST app yet.

Let me know what else to try,
Thanks

48

I’ll add more later specific to the Cooper’s, but meanwhile, just one quick note:

Never have a dimmer, smart or not, directly control the current to a smart bulb like Phillips hue. The two devices will confuse each other and you are likely to either burn out the switch or reduce the life of the bulb. The best bulbs to use with the Coopers are dimmable dumb LEDs.

If you have a Smart dimmer. which is not directly controlling the current draw to the bulb, such as the battery operated Cooper 9500 or a dimmer on another circuit, then you can have the bulb follow the switch wirelessly by passing messages through the hub.

Smart bulbs are intended to always be on full power and then they themselves will control the current draw. You can find this information in the user manuals for the bulbs.

49

It may be helpful to understand what zwave association is.

Z wave association is a method included in the standard zwave protocol which is intended to allow two devices which are in the same room to talk to each other without having to talk to the hub at all.

Its purpose is really to reduce lag as much as possible for a motion sensor triggering a light switch or in some cases an auxiliary switch triggering a master switch. when both are a long way from the hub, such as in an attic room.

So it’s understandable that smartthings ignores it – – by definition, the devices will not notify the hub about anything that they have done.

You shouldn’t need association between an auxiliary switch with zwave capability and a master switch with zwave capability when you are using SmartThings. Instead, you will have both talk to the hub and the Hub will pass the messages between them.

You can use smartlighting to have one switch follow the other, or even have each follow the other, very easily.

So while you can use zwave association if you choose to, it will almost always result in synchronization issues with the hub because the hub is left out of the message communication.

Also note that if you use the hub as the middleman, the devices don’t have to be within the same room and they don’t have to even use the same protocol. You could have a Z wave switch in the living room control zigbee bulbs on the far side of the house if you want to. Or a WeMo switch up two floors.

So while zwave association is useful in a few specific situations, most people using SmartThings will use hub communications instead. It’s more flexible, it lets you include anything that the hub can talk to, and it lets you cover a much wider area.

The instruction manuals for most Zwave devices, of course, don’t have any understanding of how a multiprotocol platform like smartthings works. They’re assuming you’re using a simple Z wave only controller. So their instructions will include associations that really are not necessary when you are using SmartThings as the network controller. :sunglasses: :bulb: :level_slider: :bulb:

1 Like
50

If you just want on/off from the auxiliaries, don’t use association at all. Instead, use smart lighting as described in post above:

you will find the detailed instructions in the community-created wikiHow to article on how to group lights. You just have to add each of the three switches to your smartthings network, and then follow the instructions:

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Group_Lights_Together

If you also want them to dim together, you certainly can. Unfortunately, smartthings does not provide this in the built in features, so you would have to use custom code like “dim with me” or “dim and dimmer.”

I know @Lgkahn has a custom device handler, I’m not sure if he also has a custom smart app to do the dimming.

I know this probably seems like there’s been a lot of discussion on features that just end up being confusing… Different people have different use cases, and some people do want to specifically use association. But it’s actually easier without it.

51

That’s great information, and I think the thread topic has been nailed with the how-to’s and the deeper explanation you just posted.

I am now moving on to “phase 2” and want to do what you suggest by configuring these switches to wireless control my always-on Hue bulbs. I assume we should take that conversation to a thread about “Cooper Aspire + Hue” where we can play with the concepts for association vs ST configuration? Do you know of a specific topic thread for this, or shall I start a new one?

1 Like
52

I think the use case is specific enough that you can set it up as a new thread under projects. :sunglasses:

53

Done. Thanks.

1 Like
54

Do you feel that the Cooper Aspire switches are worth the extra money and effort compared to the GE Zwave switches? I will be replacing some Control4 switches which have a nice LED indicator light that I do like, but the cost of the Aspire switches and the need for a Minimote has me thinking twice about them.

55

(I still haven’t addressed/completed my project, but I can answer this one)

The GE zwave switches/dimmers were very easy, affordable, and blended in nicely with “standard” toggle switches. I have several of these. If I can get the 3rd wire to other switches in the house I’ll be installing more.
The Aspire dimmers were a little complicated to setup (ex: the minimote), they were pricey, and while they look more interesting, they don’t blend well with my other switches.

The real reason I chose the Aspires was due to the community saying they were compatible with ST, and they will be controlling some smart bulbs (Hues) that cannot be controlled by the load. The switches need to act as wireless remotes, and not reduce or cut the power to the smart bulbs. Setting up the GE switch association in ST to control the lights has the light coming on maybe 4-8 seconds after hitting the switch (since the switches are polled by ST). The Aspires trigger immediately to ST that they have been pushed.

I have a single Aspire accessory dimmer controlling some Hue light strips, and it works great with the ST association… except that I don’t have the dimming working yet. I also have 3 switches 4way controlling another Hue light which I haven’t followed the advice on this thread yet. I remain hopeful that it will all work out, I’m just looking for the time to do it.

56

Different switches have different features. So it comes down to how you intend to use them. The following thread discusses different brands.

57

Thank you as always!

1 Like
58

So I started a thread on a similar topic and have been referred back here. However, I still haven’t seen an answer to getting full local control with the 9540/9542 pair, including dimmer control, and ST.

Has anyone figured this out yet?

For the sake of keeping things a bit less confusing with my other thread and keeping discussion here, I’ll copypasta my original thread body here:

1 Like
59

After exhaustive research, I settled on the Cooper Aspire 9540 & 9542 dimmer switches as I want/need full direct control at each three-way switch as well as voice control via Alexa. However, it appears that I get either one or the other and not both.

I have multiple sets of three-way switches set up with the 9540 Master and 9542-Z Accessory dimmer, and in every case I can’t get the accessory to work as intended. I’ll use my Kitchen setup as the example, but all of three-way switches appear to (not) function the same way.

I have a 9540 Master that works correctly. The on/off and dimming functions work as intended, as well as with ST and by extension, Alexa. The problems come into play with the 9542 accessory switch. I can’t get it to work reliably, and the dimmer function doesn’t appear to work at all.

I have used Smart Lighting, with the following settings:

Which lights do you want to control?
Kitchen 9540
What do you want to do?
Turn on & set level
Dimmer Level 90%
Select trigger:
Switch
Which switch?
Kitchen 9542
Turn on & set level lights when:
Turned On
Turn off as well: Set to ‘on’

However, when utilizing this setup, here is what happens:
Start with lights off (both Kitchen 9540 & Kitchen 9542)

Press Kitchen 9542 once and lights dim ‘up’ to 90%. ST reports both 9542 & 9540 are ‘on’.
Press 2nd time and 9542 & 9540 still report on, and the lights dim up again.
Press 3rd time and nothing happens. LED’s on the dimmer count up to the ‘on’ position. 9542 & 9540 are reported ‘on’ via ST.
Press 4th time and 9542 LED’s dim ‘up’ and is reported ‘on’ via ST, but lights do not turn on and 9540 still reported as ‘off’.
Press 5th time, adn LED’s on the 9542 dim ‘up’, but are dim as though the switch is off. The lights turn on and the 9540 & 9542 on ST are both repoorted as ‘on’.
Press 6th time and 9542 LED’s dim 'up, and appear to be on, booth 9542 & 9540 are reported on via ST, and the lights remain on.
Press 7th time, and switch LED’s dim ‘up’, appear that switch is off, lights in the room dim ‘up’ from the on position back to 90%, and both 9542 & 9540 are reported ‘on’ in ST.

At this point the last two actions simply repeat and there is no way to turn off the lights in the room from the accessory switch. At no time does the dimmer function ever actually work from the accessory, either.

I’ve tried all different settings I can think of via Smart Lighting app, but this is as close as I can get to actually working, but obviously it is not acceptable.

Any ideas?

61

I came across a YouTube video last night that I thought would be worth sharing. It quickly shows how to associate two Aspire devices (in this case, one is a dimmer and one is an outlet) using a Minimote.

1 Like