What about local automations then? I see you’re planning to phase out SmartApps, so are you working on taking native automations local?
Second this, it would be great to have a backup/switchover tool - it’s currently a huge barrier when considering a hardware upgrade.
Also, what about WebCore? -Surely this key app is being transitioned over?
It’s big news, with some good and some bad parts. The biggest loss for me is the shutdown of the IDE. Groovy is not perfect, but it has made sharing community apps pretty easy for most anyone who know hows to follow instructions and copy/paste code from GitHub. The new developer tools are quite good but are definitely geared more towards people who have experience coding and setting up web endpoints because a big part of the new API tools means you have to host the code either in a cloud service or out of your own home setup. I imagine that will discourage many people from using custom SmartApps, which does make me sad. I am still holding out for a future hub that can host custom code locally that includes a way to share it with other users.
On the other hand, this frees up the ST team from having to spend time and resources hosting everyone’s custom code logic (including all that really bad performing code that many of us have written), so hopefully that will give us innovation and better performance in other areas.
Overall, I am personally optimistic but also sad to see some of this stuff going away.
This all sounds well and good, but I’m just gonna put my money on this taking 2-3 years to get implemented (and even then, probably not everything on the list will be done or will have changed in some way).
While there has been some progress come from the thread about the app migration, there’s still a lot to go just in that one area. So all of these other large infrastructure changes will likely take a long time.
Any info on WebCore @brbeaird?
Also, maybe some estimations on timelines for implementing these changes?
Thanks in advance.
I still see missing pieces and bits, and cannot see how this would be at the end a more local execution environment. It is more and more depends on cloud based solutions and it is all depends on the users’ setup now.
Some integration from local LAN access has been moved to C2C, like the LIFX integration. Now if a bulb cannot connect to the LIFX cloud then it fails to work in the SmartThings environment and physically has to be power cycled. But meanwhile the bulb is working in the LAN environment from the phone and LIFX app.
Really great to be dependent on two clouds.
SmartApps, the new methods are great and gives access to different languages to subscribe to events and trigger things, but again, all connected through cloud solutions. SmartThings has passed things to glitch or ngrok and the users with computers running 24/7 at home to host their own SmartApps. No problem, but it makes really a privacy nightmare which service has access to what and how. And all is cloud connected to each other.
Some services provided in the IDE by the Groovy platform, for me, is unknown in the new API. But please excuse me, if I am wrong.
How anyone is able to access any weather data through the new API?
How anyone is able to access TTS through the new API?
Just two examples, Severe Weather Alert and Notify Me When SmartApps (BigTalker2 as well).
Someone will jump in and going to tell there are audio notification options in the new SmartThings app, and yes, I am aware of it, but the textToSpeech() is able to use Amazon’s Polly’s all languages, meanwhile the new app supports only English and Korean. And here to mention that might be using Samsung’s Bixby, what is not limited to two languages. Actually it has more TTS languages than Amazon’s Polly or Google’s TTS services.
Still no way to implement custom cameras for feed or for images.
Wouldn’t be easier to introduce a monthly service fee to manage the things better/together, than letting the whole setup fragmented?
Or just provide a way to access a LAN based server without the cloud background and all developer will buy RaspberryPis in bulk. What the latest model is not enough for that is over complicated for home automation.
I don’t know why companies like SmartThings don’t release a home server hub, for more money than the basic hub, to save those who don’t want to spend a year soldering a raspberry the task. After all with for instance Reolink you can choose to run your cameras on their cloud or get one of their NVRs which is like a server.
This is gonna be interesting.
Echoing this question: I have a number of devices that rely on community-written DTH’s. Will these continue to work? Or are they going to die on cutover day unless the community steps up and re-writes them for the new system?
I assume that doesn’t include the ADT SmartThings hub (even though it doesn’t get any updates) since there is no replacement available for it?
Do you think Smartthings will actually be answering and as these questions? OR do you think they’re just throwing this out there and then ignore it and pretend we have not asked for more info. And get back to us at a year with more info.
This is the question I keep asking myself. Why not?
We know this is not rocket science.
Philips hue has been doing this forever: local API plus remote access through their cloud.
If you are in the same network, even your mobile app will access the hub directly.
Ok, but with SmartThings we have cloud connected devices such as ecobee, what would happen if automation is running locally and it needs to interact with a cloud based device? “Simple”:
Communication to all cloud based devices runs through SmartThings cloud.
When creating an automation that will change the temperature on my ecobee (or any cloud based device handler) I should be presented with an option:
- Queue latest command.
- Ignore action.
It would optionally queue a user notification informing it couldn’t perform the required action due to connectivity issues and it has been queued or ignored.
Being offline could mean:
- Hub cannot connect to SmartThings cloud.
- SmartThings cloud cannot connect to ecobee cloud.
As mentioned, I don’t see the “complication”.
They already have everything they need and they would be saving money with this implementation so… why not?
Samsung could change the DIY home automation market and basically “own it globally” if they want to.
If only SmartThings could be used as described above: completely local access and execution for those without cloud based devices or local execution with support to cloud devices…
If only the hub had a local rest api (such as Philips hue does)…
If only “every single Samsung appliance and Smart TV” had a local rest API…
And if only Samsung would open source the appliances and TV “local endpoints” to standardize it and encourage those less known manufactures to implement it on their devices and be compatible with SmartThings right out of the box without the manufacturer creating or maintaining their clouds (because it connect and runs locally)…
Samsung would be selling a ton of additional tvs and appliances (think of all the enthusiasts plus Creston, Savant and Control4 dealers - just to mention a few who would buy or recommend them). It would become the brand of choice for appliances and TVs on any smart home.
Just think of all the possibilities… even new business emerging to compete with the big names on professional home automation because now we have a “home automation hub” that rises to to the challenge and is accessible to everyone.
And then you will be leaving on a perfect and magic world
But… what do I know, I’m just a guy coding from my bedroom
To be perfectly honest, they currently have 65 million users. I doubt having a LAN based hub that acts as a server really would draw enough users to make the juice worth the squeeze. Especially when you consider SmartThings branded hardware is doing to become a thing of the past. https://www.businessinsider.com/exclusive-why-samsungs-smartthings-is-going-all-in-on-software-2020-6
I believe you summarized it all when you said: make the juice worth the squeeze.
When it comes to big corporations there are always a lot of politics involved.
We usually see a brand name as whole while in reality these big companies sometimes are a bunch of divisions that operates independently of each other and don’t communicate well with with each other.
Something this broad could mean some divisions loosing so others could win.
Could it exponentially grow the already large number of SmartThings users out there?
Well, if it continues to add value to existing users while at the same time bringing professional users and become a replacement to pretty much all other hub out there that are trying to fill SmartThings gaps… not to mention all Openbab and Home Assistant users… definitely. It would grow by a lot.
But… if you have 65 million users and the money is flowing… your retirement is already guaranteed… you probably want to stay quite instead of starting a revolution. Unless you own the thing like what we experienced with ours old friends from MS and Apple who kind of changed the world.
The visionary guy has to be the “one” in charge and I’ve seeing this happening at tech companies only so far.
Anyway… enough corporate stuff.
Can’t wait to see this new changes. I hope several months means: before the end of 2020.
Waiting for the good stuff is always a torture
My biggest concerns are not all custom handlers Work in new app, speed of new app is drastically slower than classic, what about services like Logitech Harmony - shows up in classic app but for some reason you can’t add a new hub in the new app, compared to classic app the new app barely shows as many attributes and features - Echo Speaks devices are a great example of this. Automations aren’t as full featured - last I knew you couldn’t use the same device as a trigger and in the action in the same automation nor could you use the same device twice as a trigger and condition.
I know we’ve known for a while this was coming but one thing I really want to know is an exact date for classic app retirement.
This is fixed now.
For both situations?
so they going to stop making the multi sensors and power outlets etc? If so that’s crap.
Because there’s very little profit in that path.
Especially when compared to selling $4,000 refrigerators and $8,000 televisions.
They don’t want to be in the business of providing tech-support for the kind of product you’re describing. (If if they did, there would be a lot more employees assigned to working in this forum. Just sayin’…)
Since I run 99.5% of my home local I can’t wait to see what the future brings.