Zwave Frequency


(Brodey Sheppard) #1

I am here in Australia, Which has a different z-wave frequency ( so I found out after I bought it ). It’s currently in a shipped stage so I don’t have it yet. Will it even work and is it work unboxing? or just sending back?

I clearly want smartthings but if it doesn’t work… z-wave frequency here is 924 or something and smartthings is 900, Will smart things work with Australian z-wave products and add ons or everything I purchase needs to be American? or all together z-wave just will not work and nothing is going to connect or work?

Please someone help, I just found this out and $300 later I am stressing out.


(Andrew Urman) #2

The AU/NZ version of the hub is being manufactured. If you bought the US version of the hub it will only work with US Z-Wave products. ZigBee products should be fine though.


(Brodey Sheppard) #3

Thank you Andrew,
Is there any ETA for the Australian/NZ Hub? I am so so so keen to get my hands on it and I don’t want another service I have seen them all I want smartthings. I will need to send mine back if that is the case.

Also why is there no such thing as a hub with all the frequencies?


(Andrew Urman) #4

Each frequency would require its own radio. It would be kinda weird to make a hub with 4 Z-Wave radios for all regions. It would also make the price of the hub be super high.

Z-Wave dictates what frequency works in what region based on the countries laws. ZigBee works on the 2.4GHz spectrum which is available worldwide. Z-Wave is sub-gigahertz and is regulated more.

No ETA for the Australian hub. I should also note it won’t be available for sale. It will only be available for people who backed on Kickstarter.


(Chuckles) #5

Ach! Where does that leave us Australian Kickstarter backers down the track?

If our hub fails in 12 months time, will we be able to obtain a replacement?

If we want to expand to a second or third location, what then…?


(Brodey Sheppard) #6

Oh, I think you should reconsider that approach, That’s pretty poor if you ask me. It’s about growing a business sure the market here is no huge but that’s because of our limited options. For smart things to say “It’s too hard” that’s not cool. We work on a different frequency it’s not hard to change it and supply them. Your already making them for supporters? why not make 10,000 more and stock them? they will be sold. If I have to I will sell them personally at the markets, in stores and online if I have to because I know the market here is waiting for someone or something to come along and show Australia what it’s all about.


(Chuckles) #7

Andrew,

I realise you may only be the messenger passing on the part of the picture you know, but could I please get a response from someone at SmartThings to the questions I’ve posed above?


(Andrew Urman) #8

@chuckles sorry about that, I missed it. We’ve placed enough orders to cover a calculated number of replacements or any defective hardware. Unfortunately expansion to more houses with more kits won’t be possible in the short term. We are planning on building a new rev of the hub and want to focus attention and direction on expanding the feature set before expanding to outside of US/Canada.


(Ben Edwards) #9

To clarify, SmartThings does have plans to bring the platform to the international market in a big way, including Australia, but we have determined that we should not expend the effort and expense manufacturing more of the current version of the hub when the 2nd version is under development. I see us bringing that second hub to the world. There is no timeframe in place for that. I would not expect it to be in 2014.


(Dave) #10

Oh bloody wonderful. Guess that explains why none of the z-wave kit i just purchased from the UK works with the SmartThings hub I brought from Amazon in the US :frowning: So much for standards… And now I read there will be a Hub 2.0 ? I was really excited reading about SmartThings and really disappointed I missed the Kickstarted, more so when I saw it wasn’t readily available in the UK either - I only imported one as the Kickstarter supported international backers so assumed it would work :frowning:


(Tom Wilkie) #11

Having the same problem here - just picked up a hub in the US and doesn’t work with any UK devices. I suppose I should have checked first!

“Each frequency would require its own radio” - I cracked the hub open and the zwave chip they use (ZM4101AA-CME3) seems to be compatible with all z wave frequencies according to the datasheet: http://www.fulldatasheet.com/m/sigma-designs-inc/zm4101aa-cme3/view

So I’m guessing smarthings could flip the bit in the firmware and make this work. The aerial might not be the right length, but it’d be better than the brick I currently have. I’d be happy to test out beta software here.

This thread seems to imply this won’t be happening: Smartthings and Europea Zwave?


(Joel) #12

The latest blog post states that Australia will not be getting the smartthings hub 2.0. Will the smartthings hub support Australian z wave frequency though ?


(Chuckles) #13

All evidence to date indicates that, out of the gate, it will not. More specifically, the hardware design will be capable, but the product will not.

For the current hub, it seems the Z-wave frequency is programmed into the Z-wave chip in the factory (presumably as part of the image programmed in to the the ZM4101 64K OTP memory. OTP = One-time programmable).

I wouldn’t expect this to change for hub v2.0; it may, but I’m not holding my breath.

So a hub firmware update will not resolve the issue. We will need to wait for SmartThings to provide a hub with the appropriate frequency set in the factory, which will also require Australian C-tick certification, etc. for SmartThings to sell into Australia.

Just like the Kickstarter, we’ll have to wait for the North American market (FCC) and European market (CE) deliveries before we can expect an Australian/New Zealand (C-tick) release. Hopefully, though:

  1. we’re on the list and
  2. their previous experience coupled with Samsung’s resources will
    allow them to iterate through these a bit faster this time around.

(Joel) #14

The language has always Been they will release in Australia. But you’re right with Samsung behind them the chances are far greater. For now I guess I’ll buy zwave U.S. and try it out.


#15

Why not create an external z wave dongle that can be connected to the smartthings hub with different frequency from around the world? Is there such a thing from another manufacturer that can interface with smartthings? Been using smartthings for awhile now and love it, but a lot of the switch relays used zwave.


(Chuckles) #16
  1. Creating a dongle would face exactly the same issue - it would need
    to be made with Australian Z-wave frequencies and go through C-tick
    certification - nothing is gained going this route.

  2. Using an existing dongle from another manufacturer would increase
    SmartThing’s costs (and thus your costs) and would also make
    SmartThings reliant upon that manufacturer continuing to
    manufacture, supply and support that dongle. It would also remove
    SmartThing’s control over much of the low level Z-wave software stack,
    again making them reliant upon that third party manufacturer for adding
    or troubleshooting low level software features. This is a potential support
    nighmare, for both us and SmartThings.


#17

I guess my thought behind releasing a dongle would allow us Australian users to buy the smartthings hub now as it is and buy a z wave dongle with Aus frequency when it becomes available. I was also making the assumption that an Australian version is not being manufactured because it cost too much to manufacture a few different version and cheaper to create a dongle for unsupported region.
I’ve been using smartthings for a few months now in Australia and love it because of its open nature. I’m contemplating buying the v2 hub, but should an Australian z wave freq version become available, it’ll cost me more to buy a new hub instead of just buying a dongle. Hope that help explain my thinking. Alternatively, use Samsung’s manufacturing might and release a global/Australian version!


(James) #18

I use Echo + Hue + Wemo, but love to have ST hub in Australia, but z-Wave is always barrier to me.
Can’t find any evidence that ST will release Global version or z-Wave dongle.
Just keeping my fingers crossed for that.


(Chuckles) #19

I wouldn’t expect to see a “Global” version.

Unlike Zigbee, which sits in the near universally accepted 2.4GHz band, Z-wave sits on different frequencies all over the world (Europe, Israel, India, Hong Kong, the USA and Australia/New Zealand all sit on different frequencies).

Whilst Z-wave chips can typically support a variety of these frequencies, they are often locked to a specific frequency when they are programmed in the factory as part of the device manufacturing process. This makes it easier to obtain certification from the different countries’ regulators who seek to ensure devices will only operate on the frequencies permitted in that country (the point being, they don’t operate on frequencies used by other services in that country).

The regulations around software defined radios have actually been getting some attention recently in some jurisdictions with a view to tightening up the rules to prevent end users from straying into areas of the frequency spectrum where they shouldn’t be (e.g. the recent FCC advisory about WiFi router firmware).

So - I’m not holding my breath waiting to see a “global” version with a software selectable Z-wave region setting.