Why not Re-Release Rule Machine?

im still using ver 1.7 in android without any issues

How much money do you think heā€™s making?

Heck; if thereā€™s any money being left on the table, itā€™s only about the amount folks leave at an Applebeeā€™s after a birthday party. :birthday:

Trust meā€¦ if there were any significant amount of money in this type of work, @obycode, SmartTiles, etc. could afford to hire contractors to do our extra features programming.

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Ugh this thread. Iā€™m just not communicating well in this one.

Clearly, what I meant was: thereā€™s all kinds of ā€œwhy no android?!ā€ posting all over this forum. If it was easy to flip a switch, Bryce would have done that long ago. In fact, with all the attention heā€™s gotten with the demise of RM and the release of SR 2.0, I bet he wishes there was an android version more than the folks who keep posting ā€œno androidā€. Itā€™s not like heā€™s actively ignoring android. He just canā€™t commit the considerable time and money to supporting another platform.

I hope that contains enough subtlety.

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Totally agreeā€¦

Replace ā€œandroid?!ā€ with ā€œany feature request?!ā€ and folks should see that this is the case with absolutely any product, hardware or software. Yesā€¦ even software doesnā€™t ā€œmagicallyā€ acquire features just because they are requested.

The reason I brought up the revenue issue is that I know some folks complain that SmartRules and Sharp Tools (the only popular ā€œpaid Appsā€ at the moment) are ā€œtoo expensiveā€. It drives me insane that people are willing to spend $100 to $700 on a SmartPhone (plus monthly service!), but complain that $10 is too much to spend on a particular app that requires more ongoing support and development than the phone which will be obsolete in 24 months. If $10 is too much ā€¦ just donā€™t buy it. I donā€™t see folks negotiating with their Uber drivers or Waitstaff as to what the charge should be; or with SmartThings prices for the Hub and their $50 outlets.

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what amazes me, is that people buy switches in bulk at nealy 50 a pop, but then when it comes to make them functional, they complain about the cost of an app or hub, for that matterā€¦

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Lots of good points hereā€¦

My only (initial) gripe with Rule Machine was that I couldnā€™t purchase it. As long as it wasnā€™t $50 or something crazy I would have totally gone for it.

Not that itā€™s a huge travesty, but many of us spent countless hours switching out logic over to utilize Rule Machine. Shame on me for relying on something I (have now learned) have no rights to request continuation of itā€™s development / support.

Apache this, license that, respect wishesā€¦blah, blah, blahā€¦heavens!

I just want to be able to utilize what Iā€™ve paid for without a bunch of drama.

In summary, tell me how much and let me pay it if I see fit; if not, I can go pound sand.

Free?..yeahā€¦headaches are free too!

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If you havenā€™t seen it, CoRE is in Alpha right now:

Edit: I literally just saw some posts by you in the topicā€¦ You can ignore this message. :slight_smile:

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Noā€¦way to look out for others! I appreciate it! :sunglasses:

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May I ask why you consider $50 to be approaching ā€œsomething crazyā€?

The average price of a hardware ā€œThingā€ (outlet, switch, window sensor, leak sensor, ā€¦) is well over $50, and the minimum (except for lightbulbs) is $30 (presence sensor) and $40 (nearly every other SmartThings sensor). https://shop.smartthings.com/#!/products

Apps like Rule Machine (and SmartTiles, SmartRules, Sharp Tools, ā€¦ etc., for that matter) have far more utility than any one ā€œThingā€ and involve more effort from the developer to provide customer support, and is continuously updated with new features (firmware upgrades on hardware Things are rare, and seldom add new featuresā€¦).

Certainly hardware production has some higher initial development costs (certifications, tooling, etc.), but these become trivial when mass produced. And nearly all the hardware is generic/white-labeled (Centralite) so it is compatible and sold for many different vendors, making their market size much larger than a SmartApp which can only run on SmartThings.


So why is $50 acceptable for a light switch, but ā€œcrazyā€ for Rule Machine?

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Honestly, if an so like rule machine was fully supported (as it was) by the developer AND fully supported by the platform it easily has a value in the 199.00 range for a lifetime license and even a 59.99 per year license.

Apps like that have the ability to handle the entire ecosystem and are well worth the money.

How much do you pay for a yearly subscription to Adobe and other such practical tools?

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Because that light switch wonā€™t just decide itā€™s not going to support one day. It will always work as a light switch. Itā€™s something tangible that I can use forever regardless of smart home integration.

EDIT:

I get your point and totally agree; however, Iā€™ve seen you pose this same question of others as if you have an axe to grind?

Maybe it would be better if you didnā€™t take me so literally (or others). My example was given in light of paid apps of the past that are now worthless.

It seems a bit ironic that I stated I am for paid apps and happy to do soā€¦but now you question what my spending limit is?

ā€¦maybe I work at McDonalds with @bamarayne lol

All in good fun mind you :slight_smile:

After thinking a little bit more about @tgauchat 's question I think I know why that initial price might be of concern.

I think the biggest challenge is getting some people to understand the value.

Also, as aforementioned, I think there is concern about longevityā€¦Revolve anyone?

Whose to say the platform wonā€™t tank? If it does I can take my remaining hardware elsewhereā€¦but the community built app I spent some jack on?..no dice.

I think peopleā€™s view on how much they spend is learned reaction through things like Revolve and situations where they may have been burned on an app before.

For meā€¦I would rather have spent $100 (and be out that money right now) than for someone to tell me I have no right to complain about all the time I invested in setting up Rule Machine.

To @tgauchat 's pointā€¦for what I make an hourā€¦I have investmentā€¦so touchā€™e on the $50 :slight_smile:

Appreciate your response, and, the ax grinding is totally unintentional. Itā€™s probably some passive-aggression because Iā€™m confounded by many quotes from here and there (reviews of Apps in the mobile App stores, posts in various places here, ā€¦) in which consumers appear convinced that software should be free, while never making that argument about hardware. Well ā€“ actually, I had one guy make the comment about FlipFlic say that it was ā€œsickā€ that FlipFlic costs $70 when he, himself, could build it for $15. :confounded:

I bring up the question because Iā€™m genuinely trying to understand why folks think software should have a lower price for hardware, and I bring up the comparison immediately in order to set the perspective.

I guess Iā€™m a little too blunt with the question ā€“ but Iā€™m looking for honest answers, debate, discussion, not intentionally being antagonistic.

Most hardware doesnā€™t last ā€œforeverā€ (Things usually have only a 1 year warranty, not always including return shipping costs), and a light switch is just one example. Various other ā€œThingsā€ (sensors) could end up becoming obsolete if ZigBee or Z-Wave goes through a sudden deprecation of older protocols; heck, Iā€™m guessing the proprietary versions of Iris stuff might not be working with the new hub?

I would gladly pay a monthly service fee for a completely supported platform with extremely cheap or free hardware.

Think about the alarm companies.

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Soā€¦Iā€™m a little slow sometimes (wellā€¦I read over stuff and miss key detailsā€¦bad habit)

Now I see why it is you were askingā€¦because of SmartTiiles!..now it makes sense! My apologies for that as I didnā€™t put your screen name together with that product (shamefullyā€¦as I knew!)

What might be a good idea is a poll of sorts. Ask forum members why the hesitation (if any) for paid apps?

Again, my stance is Iā€™d rather payā€¦but let me ask you thisā€¦my turn :wink:

If you asked $10 or $100ā€¦where do you stand when ST pulls the plug?

As I saidā€¦I can take my hardware elsewhere.

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I strongly believe that such a poll is meaningless. In my opinion, the best way to find out if people will pay for an App is to just start charging for it. If people donā€™t buy, then many will offer feedback if a feedback channel is provided (e.g., itā€™s just a little too expensive, or I donā€™t use it enough, or itā€™s too buggy right now, or Iā€™m afraid the developer wonā€™t support it for more than a few monthsā€¦). Even if they offer no feedback, the number of sales (or lack thereof) is the best indicator if the price is or is not acceptable.


We (SmartTiles) are leaning hard towards ā€œsubscription based pricingā€ only, mostly because of that risk, but also because of the cost of providing ongoing support, enhancements, and infrastructure.

Yes ā€“ consumers have a resistance towards subscriptions on a ā€œfree for lifeā€ platform like SmartThings, but SaaS is becoming a more and more common, inevitable, and hopefully ā€œacceptableā€ option. And weā€™re glad that SmartThing is setting the precedent for this by selling premium services (video storage, monitoring centers, ā€¦) on a subscription basis.

Imagine for example, if the Revolv Hub had been free (instead of $299), with a minimum one year subscription of $120/year ($10/month = PEQā€™s pricing, by the way). Most customers had about 3 years of use of the Revolv hub and Cloud service before it was pulled, so most would have spent $360 instead of $299, but they would have no justification to claim that their free Hub was bricked. Ironic, but true.

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I guess it depends on when you want your answer :innocent:


Everything comes down to priceā€¦how much we talking?

Why not a one time cost of x amount or x amount per month?

Not having justification? Itā€™s sad thatā€™s what it amounts to.

It all reminds me of ā€œlifetimeā€ warranty brake pads (donā€™t get me started there) being offered on a Yugo.

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This also gets more complicated for SmartTiles because it could be a cost per dashboard, or per item on a dashboard (and what do you do when you have the same item on multiple dashboards?)
I could create my own ā€œdashboardā€ using SharpTools widgets and camera widgets right on my home screen.

I made a donation as SmartTiles is a service I use regularly (I keep it up on my work PC, on my desktop at home, and on my tablet).
I have made purchases (SharpTools, and access to RBoyā€™s app catalog) that I know I canā€™t take with me if I switch platforms. Theyā€™re part of the ST cost. Theyā€™re essentially ā€œbrandedā€ items.
I weighed the risk before making the commitment. As long as everyone else is aware of the risks before signing up, they should be okay.

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