Virtual 3 way, no neutral, no traveler?

Right. I’ve stopped expanding now that I know there’s no chance of reliability in the near future. I can’t find another system that is supposed to run smoothly. I wouldn’t mind mind if it were advertised up front but of course you won’t find truth in advertising.

The thing is, systems are supposed to improve with time (and a buyout from a top 5 world electronics co.) and not cut back on support.

I just wish I could have my 5 light switches and two outlets work reliably, its not like a 75 device system that’s overwhelmingly complicated. Turn on he light at 10 o’clock, turn it off at 12. Should be simple enough.

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They haven’t cut back on their support however, with the huge influx of new users recently, they definitely need to expand their support team, there’s a difference and oh look:

Seems like they are…


That last bit is a tad overdoing it. I’m sorry your experience blows. My experience with Hue has been perfect and only gets better. My ST V1 experience was hit or miss - beta mode really, but I honestly think I had a bad hub. I was very reluctant to purchase V2. In fact I intended not to buy it. I’m glad that I did though because it is snappier than ever and has operated without a single flaw since it went live.

“Due to a significant increase in support requests, live chat is currently unavailable. Our support team is still online though. Please send an email to and we will get back to you as soon as possible.”

The available support isn’t what it used to be, at least it hasn’t been. So you can argue semantics but for all intents and purposes less support was available per user. If only they were aware there was a new product launching and more support was going to be needed they could have hired more support ahead of time…. But I guess it’s impossible to predict product launches from inside the company…

Wait a minute, it’s been more than 12 months since Samsung bought them out and they still operate like a small overwhelmed business… That’s not right. I don’t know what the deal is, whether Samsung isn’t giving them the support they should be or if the administration is lagging, but something is wrong and it needed to be addressed a while back. Samsung wants every single one of their devices to be Internet capable within the next few years so it’s not like they have no intentions of going down the smart route.

SmartThings should have live phone support and last time I needed help with a device that literally disappeared from my network overnight live chat was shut down, it took a few days for an email reply, and another week for a second reply back in which the person who replied sent a generic email that made it obvious they hadn’t read the first one “hey we’re still here if you need us, let us know”. Yup, I did need you, that’s why I email you back that day saying so….

You can apologize all you want for them but the reviews and public feedback and results (light schedule failed for me tonight) speak for themself. And SmartThings mods stay silent when not mocking in the forums…

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You might look at Staples connect. From the beginning they made their top priority reliability, because their target market is small businesses. They got that reliability by offering very limited features and a very limited set if compatible devices, You can’t use IFTTT. There’s no Geofencing, there’s no custom code.

And many of the devices that they did pick are among the more expensive in their group.

But if you want lights that run on schedule even if the Internet is out, I think they deliver that today.

If you read their forums, you’ll see that most of the complaints are about devices that they don’t support. Not about events that ran fine on Monday and stopped running on Wednesday.

There’s no one perfect system out there. They each have pros and cons. Staples connect doesn’t give me the voice control that I need, or Geofencing. So it’s not a good match for me. But for somebody who just wants automated schedules, it does have reliability with or without the Internet.


You’ve not been in many corporate take overs have you…

I’m not apologising for SmartThings, they know full well I’ll tell them if they are doing wrong, but I will shoot down the “toys out the pram” mentality.

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This experience has left me very sour. Other companies have been much more accommodating in these rare situations to be honest. If smart things was I’d probably be willing to give the next hub another chance but $100 (and setting up every device again, you can’t just log back into your account and copy everything, really?) isn’t really too inviting.

And I believe some people have great experiences. I’m not saying it’s bad for everyone, but I haven’t even seen much if any accountability or recognition of major problems. I know they offered a good package for upgrades but that’s probably come and gone and I was busy with life at the time. Anyway I’ve said enough already, I’m glad you enjoy your system but I don’t think I’m going lay out the money for a new one. I’d feel like a fool if it didn’t work well.

Thanks I’ll give it a look.

Ha! I’m sure you’re a seasoned corporate takeover expert so I won’t bother, I don’t have the time. I’m actually getting reports that my garage has been left open while its in fact closed. I have more troubleshooting to do…

I wish I were making this stuff up.

Yes that’s actually the reason i said well known and not at all. I’ve had t active in my account for quite some time now and I’ve actually seen it discused in the forums now and then so I think it’s gaining popularity. it’s pretty nice and I appreciate the free effort put in to improve the software end of ST, if it weren’t for users like you many of my important devices wouldn’t even work! Thanks.


If that is all you need, I have a solution for you and it only costs $14.99! And if you sell you SmartThings hub on Amazon or eBay for half its price, you’ll even have $35 left to spend on another Z-Wave switch.

This device is 100% reliable. It does not need Internet. It doesn’t even need to be plugged in (it’s battery powered). It has a buil-in timer to turn your light on and off and it can even do scenes.

If your requirements are so simple why even bother with SmartThings?


Check amazon, v1 is only worth $50 at most anymore.

I had much higher hopes. But I can’t even make a virtual 3 way switch so what should I expect from smart things? Switches don’t even respond anymore on demand. Outlets don’t either. I said I’d be happy with basic function at this point so I wouldn’t have to buy another device and set up another system. There’s so much more than scheduling lights I’d like to do but I can’t.

That’s it! Sell it and get yourself an HA-7 for $15 bucks. With some luck you’ll have some spare change left to buy yourself another WD500Z dimmer (currently $29.54 on Amazon). You’ll also save yourself a lot of time complaining about SmartTings. :smile:


I have more than 75 devices and I don’t have the kinds of problems you are having. That said, I would reach out to support and go through the troubleshooting steps. Just because the devices are close does not mean you are still not having signaling issues.

This is very doable with a SmartApp.

Probably because your username is similar to another user who had very similar complaints and was offered a replacement.


I may be mistaken, but based on other threads I believe the OP is not getting signal communication between devices. Until that’s cleared up, an app can’t help.

I agree working with support makes the most sense at this juncture, they gave access to some remote diagnostics. And all of the OP’s devices are on the official compatibility list, so support should be able to help if anyone can.

Which app? The big switch is close but not a true three way and double tap has a 10% success rate at best.

I’ve literally spent hours with support. These issues don’t stop (two new ones tonight) and I haven’t gotten the resolution I need. Also the last issue I contacted support about took them 8 days to send a second reply and it was pertaining to v2 of the hub which I don’t have and didn’t hint at.

You came to a thread with a title advertising dissatisfaction to complain about users being dissatisfied? Are you suggesting I’m making this up or I don’t have a right to express my dissatisfaction with a system I’ve put considerable effort and money into? Or did I just pick up on sarcasm that wasn’t there?

You can create a true virtual three-way using multiple instances of the big switch, so that each switch follows the other. It doesn’t put it into a loop, it does work.

Or did you need something else? Or is it broken?

I’ll try the adding another big switch occupancy on the other switch, thanks for the suggestion.

I was hoping more for a “aeon labs minimote wd500z/wd00z direct pairing” type of thing, or a single smart app at best to keep things simple as possible though.

I can’t use the minimote to pair two GE switches and I can’t use a nuetral in one location so I NEED a GE dimmer there. I don’t want to replace it with the Lutron Vizia.

You can do direct association between any 2 zwave switches as long as each switch supports association.

But you can’t do it if they don’t.

Your Linear switches don’t support association. That has nothing to do with SmartThings. They can’t be associated by anything else either. But that’s where a smartapp can help.

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