SmartThings Community

SmartThings Outage - Jan 27 2018

(Mark) #97

You might be right, I only took a quick look at who seemed to be getting involved in their forum.

But in terms of that LinkedIn screenshot, I recognize all but two of those names as community developers that contribute to the forum here, and don’t recall any of them having ST staff badges (since I joined the community in 2015 at least).

( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #98

There’s very little reason for Goliath to acquire David… At least not until David has proven to be at least viable, let alone a competitive threat.

Samsung has the technology and a hundred times the resources of Hubitat, and could implement fully local execution if: Samsung actually wanted to.

Unless Hubitat has a genuine genius on staff or significantly high profile investors, acquisition is a ludicrous idea. Acqui-hire (ie, a nice quick way to recruit some good staff) is the only acquisition plan that makes an ounce of sense.

(jeubanks) #99

Agreed, chances of acquisition probably not high on Samsung’s list at the moment. But what the hell. I bought one and I’ll give it a try. At the very least a new toy to play with. Maybe someday between all of these hubs and bridges and raspberry pi’s I have lying around I’ll have a solution I’m happy with :smile:

(Bill S.) #100

I just want to go on record and say that my bank account hates ALL OF YOU! LOL Now I have to go and check out hubitat. You are all enablers and you know it. :wink:

On a serious note, I hadn’t seen anything about hubitat until now (thanks @tgauchat) and it looks like an interesting product. If nothing else, I’ll try it and then shelve it with the other misfit toys.

(jeubanks) #101

@Core_phx, we all strive to be the best enablers that we can be.

@tgauchat, also thanks. I hadn’t heard of Hubitat until today either.

(jkp) #102

I created a new thread for the hubitat discussion :slight_smile:

LOL my spell checker keeps changing hubitat to habitat. 5 edits later to get the name correct.


This nails it right here.

Local execution likely will not ever align with Samsung’s unstated business and financial model, which I can only presume is either to sell more things (TV’s, Phones, etc…), and/or to monetize the data captured/ingested from our things. The SmartThings privacy policy does not go into a ton of detail on what they’re doing, how long they retain data, etc… which again, I’m sure is “by design” to support whatever unstated direction they take this, assuming they haven’t already.

As such, local execution, by name (i.e. LOCAL) likely does not support the grander data monetization vision if present , so local support is likely not a strategic priority. Decisions like this usually are not due to those working hard in the trenches, but rather the non-technical folks pulling in 7 figures a year in the upper ranks.

So, looking at Hubitat, there seems to be promise, but many unanswered questions. Might jump on it too if migration and code compatibility is there or even if some of the annual fee questions and what is included long term. I know, wishful thinking. :roll_eyes:


Here’s the really disappointing thing about local execution not aligning with their current business objectives/drivers: Once they lose me as a customer, I will go out of my way to never return. This is not because I don’t like ST. It is because they had the opportunity to lock us in as lifetime customers and didn’t by choosing to not give us something (robust rules engine and local processing) that was requested for years.

( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #105

The theory is that Samsung SmartThings’s market size is in the “hundreds of millions” of households globally.

Though there’s no public exact number, the current customer base is likely still under 1 million. The number that participate in the forum and power-use WebCoRE and other Community SmartApps is about 20,000. Miniscule.

Based on the magnitude of difference, anything that happens now is completely irrelevant for the future of Samsung’s smart home visions and potential for success. We are just a long term Beta-test group,

SmartThings (especially with the resources of Samsung at disposal) has the ability to do anything it wants to do; including replicating WebCoRE: Or making a full natural-language rule writer / interpreter. Or whatever miraculous smart home feature you can think of.

It’s just that Samsung is in no rush to do this - who knows why not?

(Mark) #106

In part, because SmartThings is such a small part of the overall business that it is not a high priority.

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( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #107

But isn’t isn’t this exactly the same situation at Amazon, Google, and Apple?

(Mark) #108

I’m not sure there is a direct comparison between these cases. At Amazon, the Echo line of products has become huge (probably even surprising Amazon). And, you can order from Amazon with Echo devices.

Google is rolling Nest into the Google brand. I don’t have a Nest thermostat; but I do have several Nest Protects and this move makes me little concerned over continued support.

As for Apple, I did a lot of consulting in Silicon Valley a few years ago (not for Apple). I do not own any Apple products and will not be buying any Apple products in the future. More than enough said.

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( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #109

Indeed… it kinda proves that the DIY smart home industry is still very, very young!

Try to name a bigger player than SmartThings in DIY smart home? I don’t think there is anyone.

  • Wink, Vera, Homeseer, Iris, … are all overshadowed now.
  • Newcomers like Oomi Home, Hubitat, Athom, etc., etc., … are just that: infant startups - some of whom may suddenly get prominent - especially if acquired.
  • Mono-product lines that are expanding: Nest, Ring, Amazon Alexa, …
  • Subscription services:, Xfinity, AT&T, ADT Pulse, …
  • Non-DIY: Control4, Crestron, Savant, …

No matter how you slice it, I sincerely think that it’s very difficult to argue that SmartThings is #1 and outstanding in this very large niche.

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For the DIY niche, Apple’s HomeKit and Alexa both crush SmartThings in installed users right now. (I know Alexa isn’t a hub, but the standard echo plus some Wi-Fi pocket sockets and the hue bridge has to be several times larger an installed base than SmartThings.)

For CES, how many devices were publicized as “works with SmartThings?” compared to “works with HomeKit” or “works with Alexa”? How many journalists were writing about SmartThings in their CES articles?

I would accept an argument that SmartThings is number one in the complexity of rules that it allows in the consumer-ready market segment at the under $1500 price point. But I’m quite sure it’s not leading in the number of installations.

( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #111
  1. I don’t watch television so perhaps I’m missing a ton of advertising, but I have no sense that Apple comes to the mind of consumers “smartening” their homes. But I’m probably just naive or ignorant. Still… It seems that limiting to iOS for control has really got to be holding them back… No???

  2. Using Alexa to control various simple smart lights / outlets is fine, but leaves out the entire “sensor” part of the platform, which is essential to automation, safety (leaks, smoke, child access to cabinets…) and security monitoring.

SmartThings isn’t a “household word” (unlike the other mega brands in the general space). But why not? Samsung quite unwilling to run a Super Bowl ad - unlike Amazon for Alexa?

Samsung is just not in a hurry at all. This is a long term play.

1 Like
(Steve White) #112

They’re different different market segments.
Alexa is home control with a voice interface, Home Kit is the same with a dumber AI but pretty UI and a few basic rules you can create. And I’m a huge Apple fan, but Homekit is a flop, Siri is a failure. Neither offers any significant overlap in functionality as real home automation products Wink, Vera, Iris, Hubitat and others.


Definitely not a flop, again look at the number of manufacturers advertising HomeKit compatibility or upcoming HomeKit compatibility.

And so far, HomeKit is the main platform that new homebuilders have been adding as standard to their “smart homes” for 2017 and 2018.

It works just fine for the most simple use cases: turn on the lights when I get home, turn on the lights when someone walks into a room, turn on the lights at sunset. Plus a smart lock and maybe a garage door controller.

Remember that smartthings staff themselves have said that the majority of their customers have 15 devices or fewer and use no custom code. The people in this forum are a very different group. :sunglasses:

Fibaro just this last year added a whole new line of sensors specifically for HomeKit. Leviton added a HomeKit model of their SmartSwitch. The manufacturers do that because the market demands it.

Apple doesn’t have to advertise HomeKit because it comes built-in to every iOS device. They don’t advertise email or even iCloud, either. It’s a feature of the devices that they do advertise.

I’m not saying it would meet the needs of most people in this forum, it wouldn’t. But the installed base is large and getting bigger.

( co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #114

Apple’s advertising campaigns always seem to focus on a particular feature and they cycle through them.

There’s a campaign that features professional photography. Number of Apps. Video editing. Apple Music…

And a big campaign right now for Home Pod.

When Apple wants to use HomeKit as a way to increase sales or loyalty, I presume it will be heavily marketed.

Meanwhile, SmartThings’s lack of exposure in the home builder and professional installer / reseller market is confounding… Or simply intentional once again.

I guess my ongoing point here is that I am convinced SmartThings will be a steadily growing name even if seems to be a more of a tortoise in this race than a hare.

I previously speculated that if ST wasn’t at well over 2 million hubs sold by now that they would be out of business. I was wrong about that!

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HomePod is a device, not a feature. :sunglasses:

Apple has Home promos. It’s not one of the top promoted features, but it is promoted.

If you walk into an Apple store or read any of the blogs/magazines aimed at Apple device users, you’ll see something about HomeKit.

The rest of the advertising is left up to the smart home device manufacturers.

(Steve White) #116

I would hardly call that an indicator of success. Many companies partner with Apple due to their size, reputation, and marketshare. It’s hardly an indicator of the success, in terms of adoption of that particular platform. Apple has a penchant for twisting, distorting, or otherwise selectively sampling customer metrics to over-emphasize the success of their products. I’m a huge Apple fan but I take any metrics they publish with extreme skepticism.