Its never taken more than 15 minutes for me.
Maybe reboot hub and try again.
Do you see any zwave module reboots due to exception?
If there was a zwave module reboot the zwave repair would be ended early, maybe without a finished message.
Ahh, maybe thats whats going on. Right after the repair started, it did rejoin a device. Log screenshot below. Also, I started this repair right after a reboot. I rebooted through the IDE, dont know if thats any different than rebooting from the hub itself (through the button on the back, or unplugging it). So should I kick off another repair?
I also have a device thats disconnected from being out of range (hoping this repair stuff fixes it) and one that cycles in and out of being disconnected, dont know how that might impact the repair.
I have a fairly small system by some standards - only about (30) Z-Wave devices ((24) ZigBee), but Z-Wave Repair runs are usually about 4-5 minutes.
that z-wave setup message kills the repair. try excluding that device and running it again.
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Edit: Device inclusion/setup does end zwave repair without a finish.
I have 88 devices in all, not sure of breakdown between zwave and zigbee.
Again, there is a huge difference between running a repair on an established stable network and running a repair when youāve just added a dozen or more new devices. Thatās to be expected.
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@massination - I would not worry about range differences between the ST and VERA hubs. The range only matters for the closest repeater devices. The whole point of a mesh network is to be able to expand over a larger area that the main controller can reach directly. As @JDRoberts stated I doubt there are any real differences between the two, but even if there were, it should not matter if the mesh network is built properly.
I recently migrated my house from v2 to v3 and have run into several of the issues you described. While it is hard to know with certainty what the specific issue was, I believe some of the issues were related to bad device inclusions. In some other cases it was likely due to me adding the devices in the wrong orderā¦ what I mean is that you should build out your mesh network starting from the hub and moving outwards. Donāt focus on distance but rather amount of material (obstacles) between you and the node. Different materials will have different dampening effects on the signals.
It sounds like your VERA network was routing properly so it is likely a matter of reaching that equilibrium now that you are on ST. In my bring up, my network repairs were not working either and as @Automated_House said, the ādevice setup startedā message was typically the last thing I sawā¦ once I excluded that device and included it back, the network repairs started working again.
With regards to the devices that refuse to be included I would try to:
- try to exclude them again in ST
- reset them using the deviceās instructions on how to do so
- try to include them again
It may be necessary to do this more than onceā¦ or at least it was in my case.
I have not studied this much yet, but I believe that Zwave Plus devices typically support NWI (network wide inclusion) which should allow you to include Zwave plus devices without being very close to the hub. This was one of the reasons for me to opt to upgrade all my zwave leviton dimmers/switches to Homeseer Zwave Plus dimmers and switches. I also replaced most of my older zwave devices with newer zwave plus versions.
While this was written for HomeSeerās controller, the same applies to ST:
One place where you can check what ZDK version your device is using is the Raw Description on the deviceās IDE page:
I used the Zwave Tool Box to find some devices that appeared to be causing issues and while I could likely have achieved the same results without, I think it helped me look in the right direction.
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JD, last night I spent several hours on thisā¦I think Iāve come to the conclusion that the zwave antenna/radio in the ST v2 hub is not just as strong as in the VeraLite that I was usingā¦but feel free to disagree :). I have a unique case where I have to bridge a long distance through the air, where the mesh network does not benefit meā¦more on that in a minuteā¦
So I removed all devices from the hub, except the hard-wired few that were closest to the hub. I then repaired the zwave network and this time it was successful (took like 2 min). So then I worked my way away from the hub, and added 4-5 devices at a time, and repaired the network after each set. After adding about 20 or so, it got to where the repair would not work again, and every time I tried to repair it would give me a āZ-Wave device setup startedā, then something like āLiving Room Desk rejoinedā, which would kill the repair (and it was random and different devices each time, but always one of the first 3 I had paired) But i figured out if I gave the hub a hard reboot (unplugged for a few minutes, plugged back in) it would usually succeed on the subsequent repair attempt. So I ended up getting all my interior hard wired devices paired (34 total), and the network repaired. Question - did I accelerate things to as good as its going to get by doing all the repairs, or is there still some marinating that would need to take place over a long period of time like you mention? In my head, it seems if everything is paired and zwave network repaired, I am golden. But you know better than me. So anyways, I tried to pair the 3 switches out at the chicken coop (I actually measured this time - its 100ft from the hub, with a brick wall in between), but the hub would not recognize any of them.Actually the first step was a general exclusion (which is normally immediate when the switch is close enough) but that wouldnt even work. The hub is actually likely closer to the chicken coop than any switches, so I believe the mesh network is no benefit to me here. There is nothing in between the house and the chicken coop except 100 ft of air. The closest repeater switch is likely 5 feet further away than the hub. So my assumption is that the VeraLite was almost guaranteed to be connected directly to those 3 switches without any hops. Thats what leads me to think the ST hub just has weaker zwave than the Vera. Heres a lovely MS Paint drawing of the situation:
I actually wonder if it mostly has to do with the antenna configuration. It looks like on the VeraLite, the antenna is external to the main board (so likely larger than the ST antenna), and some people actually even upgrade it by adding a pig tail connected to the hub casing and screw on one of those longer plastic antennas like what you have on a router. See this link:
https://www.livehouseautomation.com.au/products/vera-z-wave-3-5dbi-antenna-upgrade-kit?variant=18317592068
I wonder how hard it would be to do something like that on the ST hubā¦
Iām not saying itās impossible that smartthings has done something not to standard, or that the multiple radios inside the hub itself arenāt causing some kind of issue: a lot of things are possible. But itās not likely, as weāve had quite a few people come over from Vera in the past ( or go the other way) and youāre the first one who has raised this issue of signal strength. So I think more likely it comes down to the old saying: āall home automation is local.ā Meaning when youāre dealing with low power mesh networks, local architecture and conditions is the most common answer to these kind of problems.
So now that youāve established that you can get a working network with your hardwire devices except for the ones out in the chicken coop, I would start looking at the physical orientation of the hub within about the first 6 feet. The Z wave signal is Omni directional, meaning it spreads 360Ā°, but it takes about 2 m before it really spread and you can cause some interference problems with physical items that are very Close to the hub for that reason.
So my first question is is the smartthings hub in exactly the same location as the vera hub was? In particular, is one higher up or closer to a window or farther away from a metal cabinet, or anything like that.
Also, you do have the vera hub powered off when youāre trying to do all this, correct? Because one hub could cause interference for the other.
Next is the question of the orientation of the Z wave antenna inside the hub. Because again, the signal doesnāt really spread fully until you are about 2 meters from the hub. Sometimes just shifting the hub 90Ā° will improve range in one direction.
Here is a teardown of the V2 hub. Notice that the Z wave antenna is on the front edge somewhat aligned with the red reset button on the back edge. So see if you can get the antenna pointing towards a window that has line of sight to the chicken coop.
Also in the V2 hub the Z wave antenna is on the underside of the hub, so there can be a potential issue if itās sitting on a metal cabinet or a metal table or even a metal tray. Normally thatās not a big issue, but once we start troubleshooting for range, we start thinking about any little thing that might degrade signal slightly.
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JD,
Its worth testing out orientation, thanks for the tips. I wasnt sure where the zwave antenna was on the V2, so itāll try pointing the front edge in the direction of the coop.
To answer your question, the Vera is turned off, and the v2 hub is sitting right where the vera was.
But I will say this. The VeraLite was in the attic until about 6 months ago. More towards the backside of the house (further away from the coop). And it was pointed in probably multiple locations while it was up there. 6 months ago I put it under the TV in the cabinet with the router, subwoofer, etc (definitely not by a window). Iāve rearranged and cleaned things out several times since then, and the vera hub has at one time been sitting right beside the router, but then moved (not because of signal issues) and my kids are in that cabinet moving DVD cases, etc all around pretty frequently, so again, pretty sure its been under all sorts of locations in there and pointed in random directions. But the chicken coop door opens every morning and closes every night without fail.
I understand that there are standards, but its seems a given that if Vera has a more external antenna (and larger) then the signal strength is likely better, but i wouldnt even make that claim if i wasnt experiencing it first hand.
Iād really like to use the ST, so Iām going to play around with location/orientation and maybe even see if i can get it by a window if I have to. I might also tear it apart and see what the antenna situation is, but i sorta think it would be a lot more effort than adding an external antenna to the vera (which looks to be just unplugging the existing one and plugging in a new one)
Because these are unlicensed bands, there is a maximum power at which the devices are legally allowed to transmit. These days, pretty much any hardwired Z wave device is transmitting at that maximum power. ( itās worth noting that if you modify the antenna, you can pretty easily go above that level and be breaking the law, something that authorities tend to take pretty seriously because it often means you can interfere with either devices belonging to your neighbors or with first responder communication systems. )
So again, I would tend to think it more likely that itās local architecture/interference issues. But it can be hard to troubleshoot, especially without professional tools.
I am trying to understand this zwave rejoin thing and that it ends the zwave repair.
So for zwave is this a thing that should be happening?devices should leave and then rejoin when they are not physically moving?
Also, should a join stop the zwave repair or is this a bug?
If I as a user starts an inclusion and exclusion that stops the zwave repair, this seems to make sense.
But devices leaving and jointing on their own forces the zwave repair to stop?
Should a wired zwave device that is not physically moving leave and then rejoin the network?
Did you ever get a completely clean zwave repair?
So a repair that completes and no lines that states a zwave repair failure.
Yes, I added about 4-5 devices at a time, and did not move on before I had a clean repair. At the end of adding all interior devices, and before i started trying to add the exterior ones, I had a clean repair. It took rebooting the hub several times. Like I mentioned, once I hit about 20 devices, it would not repair cleanly, and kept ending prematurely when it hit a wired device rejoining. But a hard reboot and a re-attempt fixed it, and the repair right after the reboot was clean.
So no go on pointing the front of the v2 towards the coop. However, I got closer! This time i was able successfully do a general exclude on one of the switches (since it was still joined to the Vera). But i tried to include it about 10 times, and gave up since I had to get back to work. I guess the only thing left as far as placement is to try to position the v2 in a window, if i can find a long enough ethernet cableā¦dont really like that as a long term solution though since Iād have to have the hub permanently stuck in a window.
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@massination - Not sure which version of the VERA hub you have but the white weirdly shaped one does have a better antenna:
In the article above he is going to the extreme of adding an external antenna to replace the internal one. I would not do thatā¦ you might be able to reach the devices further away, and might receive signals from devices further away but there will be a larger imbalance between the hubās capability and the nodeās capability. In layman terms, if the far away node āhearsā you but canāt āshout back loud enoughā for you to hear it well then there is no communicationā¦ I am sure there are some cases where this will help but I do not believe it is an ideal solution for a mesh network.
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@ aruffell - yep, thats the one Iāve got, the weirdly shaped one. Maybe Iām just lucky to have had that one all this time. I guess an alternate approach is to keep using it for those 3 devices, and maybe it would work better with just 3. I think Iāve overloaded it which might have led to some of my issues with it. I think the max devices was supposed to be 50 or something and I was just over that.
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Latest update - I found a long ethernet cable and put the V2 hub in a window, with the zwave side of it facing the coop. No dice. Tried to include the outdoor switches 5 times or so. Also tried to exclude the other 2 switches out there that are joined to the vera. No luck. Distance is still the issue I think.
Also tried to exclude the door lock on the detached garage so that I could pair it up, no dice again. Out of range. Does anyone know if Kwikset locks are like Schlageā¦i read that with those they canāt do hops through other devices and they have to talk directly with the hub, for security reasons.
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Both Kwikset and Schlage can communicate through repeating devices, but only after they have been successfully paired and have exchanged the security key with the hub. The initial join has to be within what is called āwhisper distance,ā typically around 10 feet. But once the key has been exchanged, extra hops are fine. 
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@massination - can you confirm you did the reset procedure on the devices causing you trouble? What are the device? Model and make?