Smartrules vs Rule machine

Didn’t know about smartrules, used rule machine before, interesting… Looks easier to use than RM for me as a non coder to especially.

I know it’s “only” £8, but I hate buying apps and then they get no support. What worries me is if ST gets a update, then this stops working, and then it either can’t be fixed because of a ST platform problem, left in limbo by no fault of the app or developer. All the rules made could be defunct.

Well all upgrades always be free or just for this version?

Is there any price reduction coming, especially for v2 next week? Noticed it went up £3 in March.

There’s no trial version in UK so, it’s a buy and see.

Can you as a trigger do a “if this motion, or this open/close” ie can a trigger be a “if”?

Is there anything specific that you can’t do in the app because of the ST platform limits?

Good questions @R2D2. I’m Brice, the founder of obycode, the company that builds SmartRules. Let me try to answer them for you.

We’re in this for the long haul and have lots of plans for the future, so we’ll definitely be supporting and improving SmartRules for the foreseeable future. Of course I can’t promise it will be supported forever, but since it doesn’t rely on any third party infrastructure, just the SmartThings cloud, you could keep creating and relying on your rules even if we closed up shop.

Updates to keep the app up-to-date and fix and add core features will always be free. Apple doesn’t give us a way to charge for them anyway. There may be advanced features added in the future that require in-app purchases or a subscription.

No price reduction planned for the time being.

If you wait just a few more days for version 2.0, you will be able to get the app for free and try it out with 1 rule, then purchase unlimited rules via an in-app purchase.

I’m not sure I understand this question. A trigger is always an “if this happens” (or “if any of these happen”). You can have multiple triggers which allow the rule to trigger if any of them happens. Then there are also conditions (“while this is true”) that are tested once the rule is triggered.

So far, the only thing we’ve discovered that we can’t do because of SmartThings restrictions is to control the state of Smart Home Monitor. The API for that is closed, and although developers have figured out how to do it, it is not accepted for apps like SmartRules which are reviewed, approved and officially published. There are still some other features that are not implemented yet, but not due to any restrictions from SmartThings. See the site, http://smartrulesapp.com, for a complete list of currently supported features.

I’ll be happy to answer any other questions you have here or via support@smartrulesapp.com. We also love hearing ideas for future improvements. Thanks.

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Thanks for answering @obycode. I’ve looked on your website, it looks really good, especially for non developers/coders like me. Will you be active on here also for questions etc ask the time too?

I know requests are sometimes specific to an individual and the way Apple certification, testing etc is sometimes long, but are you receptive to requests to add to your app?

If I bought, and then you decided to add even more IAP for more functionality I wouldn’t really be happy. £8 would be (I’d imagine others to?), the most I’ve paid for an app. And then to later on only get further “updates/additions” via IAP would be a bit disappointing. Although obviously you deserve all you get got your hard work, just to then ask owners already to get stuff in, but only by buying again would be hard.

On the triggers, that is what I meant, " if any of these" so either a motion OR a open/close for example…

I bought ST really expecting this to be built in. I know routines are there, but no rules like this I couldn’t understand.

As I say, my biggest worry would be to rely on your app and then either you disappear, or Samsung decide to do similar and build it in, and probably on purpose break your app somehow, it’s happened before, Hue stopped other lamps talking to their hub for example.

On the SHM where you say you can’t, what would you do if could? Send alerts to it? Not sure what you could do on this as far as I understand, SHM just monitors any sensors (things) you want while either in/away and alert you. Your app could do similar by monitoring sensors of a routine was run

From your lips to @alex’s ears

That’s a possibility with any piece of software you buy… heck, it’s also a possibility that SmartThings will go out of business and we’ll all be screwed :slight_smile:

Since Smartrules is a paid app, I feel pretty confident that @obycode will stick around for the foreseeable future. I’d worry more about the plethora of free, community-created apps by volunteer developers. SmartThings would face a pretty serious backlash if they started breaking community apps every time they added some functionality to the core software. When they added SHM, they didn’t break Smart Alarm (which remains a free, community-developed app).

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True, always a possibility suppose, let’s hope ST grows and grows! Have to get in more than just Currys in UK though, strange strange decision to still just be in here.

Again I’m just learning, great resource the community. Can I ask what does smart alarm do that SHM doesn’t then, or vice versa.

Thanks

SHM is the SmartThings-designed alarm system, and is required if you’re going to use one of the paid monitoring services (which I don’t believe are available in the UK anyway). Smart Alarm is a community-created app that predates SHM by a couple years. Smart Alarm is now an official Smart App, so you don’t need to copy-paste any code. Smart Alarm has many features (entry delay, being the biggest one) that SHM doesn’t have. More info here:

To avoid cluttering up this thread, you can find more discussion about Smart Alarm here:

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Well thought may as well buy it! @obycode

I was asking above about the trigger. I’ve created as rule, but as you said it can be “any of these” to trigger. What about AND for trigger? I can’t seem to find it?

Is it not possible for a trigger to have something like "motion and open sensor then do this?

Thanks

Definitely. I love hearing ideas from users and definitely take all input into consideration.

Totally understood. There will have to be good reason for a new feature to require an extra purchase.

I would like to be able to use its status (away, stay, disarmed) as a trigger/condition and set its status as an action.

No, the triggers can only be “any”, because a trigger is an instantaneous event, its not possible for two to happen at the same exact time. It sounds like you might want something like:

if this happens:
  door sensor opens
while this is true:
  motion is detecting motion
then do this:
  do something

Also, forgot to answer this question earlier:

Definitely. Just be sure to tag me in any new discussions to be sure I see it.

@obycode

Was the update pushed through for the timed rules?
Will this be in the “lite” version? I want to make sure this can completely substitute Rule Machine before I purchase the app.

They told me the update was pushed live, but I don’t think it actually is. I’m working on getting more info from them, so I won’t make the iOS update live until I’ve verified that the SmartApp update is live.

Yes, well, sort of… So actually what we’ve done is gotten rid of the Lite version and made the main version free with an in-app purchase to get unlimited rules. So yes, you will be able to get it for free including all currently available features, it’ll just be limited to 1 rule unless you purchase.

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Cool, that works.
Let us know when it is ready!

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@obycode If triggers can only be “any”, and a trigger is required (can’t just use conditions), then how can I implement a rule such that when both my phone and my wife’s phone leaves, then do this?

Also, is there any release notes for 2.0, and how will we know when we have it? Will just the SmartApp change, or the iOS app as well?

This is very similar to a question I just answered in another topic - Rule Builder iOS app

Basically, you’ll use both the triggers and the conditions. The triggers make the rule fire, and when the rule fires, the conditions are checked. So your rule could look like this:

if any of these happen:
  John leaves
  Jane leaves
while ALL of these are true:
  John is not present
  Jane is not present
then do this:
  // do something
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Yes, I’ll post the release notes in this thread - Rule Builder iOS app

Both the iOS app and the SmartApp needed to update. You’ll see an update for the iOS app in the App Store.

v2 is out on the app store, in UK anyway now…

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Yes, it should be available now. If the app is not showing as free, please wait for the price change to propagate through the store. It seems to be a problem for some.

Does SmartRules 2.0 have the option for Beep and Flash? Example in Rule Machine I could have my siren beep using the speak command using the Audio Device which was my Aeon Siren. Also I am able to flash a hall light that has the device capability when entering my home with Smart Alarm?

We support the tone capability ( http://docs.smartthings.com/en/latest/capabilities-reference.html#tone ) which has the beep command and for flash we support the alarm capability ( http://docs.smartthings.com/en/latest/capabilities-reference.html#alarm ) which has the strobe command. Does that solve your problem?

Hi Bruce,

@obycode
Any update on a android app?
I noticed you had an alpha/beta for android back on 16th Feb. Has this progressed and do you need a beta tester?

Regards
Gary

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