Smarthings Outlet. Fire Hazard

I’m going to use mine as a repeater :slight_smile:
It’s about all it’s good for.

Would a samsung outlet repeat the signal to the hive outlet which then repeats it to the hub?

hi all.

i have 4 of these, 2 of them get a little hot but otherwise they seems ok. reading this thread made me very concerned about their safety, especially in a family home setting.

I’ve just spoken to Amazon CS, as I bought them from Amazon, they were great - 2 of them over a year old and they have issued refunds for all and asked for them to be sent back. I notice they seem to be ‘out of stock’ everywhere - which I think is a clue.

I will try the Heiman plugs - though do we know for sure these are ok? Feels like trading a known brand device with a pretty unknown unit, not sure how we can know this is safer but I guess that goes for any CE marked product.

Add me to the list of issues, bye bye all SmartThings plugs now. Thank god I read this post and checked my plugs.

Anyone any recommendations on good, high load plugs (or something similar for power monitoring) for UK users? I want to start monitoring appliances but I doubt these plugs are going to be up for it

If the Hive functions as a repeater, then yes, Messages would be repeated in both directions. And almost all plug-in zigbee devices do act as repeaters.

But it’s up to each individual manufacturer if they choose to include that functionality, and I just haven’t heard anyone confirm yet at the hive pocket socket does. But it is certified to the same standard as SmartThings, so it should. I just learned never to make the assumption until it’s verified. :sunglasses:

Define “High load” in Amps.

There are a number of good Z wave pocket sockets for the UK market, but most of the max out at 13 A. Above that, you might have to go to an in wall relay instead.

I’m talking washer, drier etc. Things on standard plugs but which pull some wattage (1500+)

All of the following specs are for the 230 V UK/EU region models only. For anyone who happens across this thread in the future who is looking at US models. Please check the individual specs, they will be different.

If you are willing to use Z wave instead of zigbee, there are some good choices.

TKB has one with energy monitoring that can handle up to 3000 W on a UK style plug, and about 2200 on a French one. Vesternet is waiting for shipment to come in, but the last time I heard they were expecting them before the end of the year:

They also sell them in a five pack at a bit of a discount.

The Aeotec pocket socket handles up to 2990 W in the UK plug.

There are a couple of other brands, but they spec a little lower, although most are still at 2000 W or higher. Vesternet has a good selection. Anything which is Z wave or zwave plus should work with SmartThings for basic on/off. The energy reporting feature might require custom code if someone hasn’t done it already.

I personally would not use any device for this which requires an adapter to fit your wall format, but that’s just me. :sunglasses:

Again, though, all of these are Z wave. They will repeat for Z wave, but not zigbee.

I personally don’t buy electronics off of eBay. Too many damaged and counterfeit goods for my taste, but I’m an engineer. I like solid devices with solid warranties from authorised sellers. :wink:

updated to add Having said all that, I’m going to agree with the comments from @ady624 and @mkdr30 that caution is required is using a pocket socket (plug-in module) with anything with a large motor, that is, above about 1400 W.

I have found Vesternet’s tech-support to be very good: I would write and ask them about your intended usage for any larger appliances with any specific model from their site that you are considering.

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Generally, in the US, any device using 1500+W should use a dedicated 20A circuit - this uses at least 12AWG wires and is protected by a 20A breaker. It is fairly common practice that new installs use 14AWG (15A) for lighting appliances and 12AWG (20A) for power receptacles, while using 15A breakers and 15A rated receptacles. But certain circuits in the house are designated as 20A - you’ll find one in your bathroom (hair blower), for your washing machine, etc. Using a 13A or 15A smart plug in those ports is a violation of NEC as they would NOT be protected by the breaker - the breaker is supposed to have the smallest rating of all permanent or semi-permanent elements of the branch, this including power strips and these smart plugs. The breaker is there to “break” first… If the breaker is designed to trip at 15A or 20A and the plug is designed for 13A, you will see your plug catching fire before the breaker trips. Not sure how things are in the UK though, but many of the issues in the US may be related to incorrect usage.

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In the UK, the wiring is very different, the safety codes are very different, and appliances are designed for a different type of power management. :sunglasses:

Just as one example, in the US, fault protection is mandated by code in the receptacle. (GFCI) In the UK, the equivalent RCD device is often in the plug-in appliance cord instead. That is, hairdryers come with a built-in short detector, which is not true in the US Market. So it’s just a different situation.

The OP will have a number of pocket socket choices in the UK that would not be available in the US.

Hi, i’d always be cautious about using one of these plugin remote switches with anything likely to spike over 13A. a dryer for example, might be rated a 5A max load but during spin up theres a change of spiking over max load.

I’ve just sent back all my Smartthings Outlets for a refund (amazon - see above) and bought 4 Heiwan UK variants. for me its an untested product - but it is CE marked, has a rated load of 3000w / 13A unlike the Smartthings plug with shows 12A / 2000W. Also the Heiwan L/N terminals are covered, meeting Uk specs.

this product in my eyes is now unsafe for residential use. quite a few stories of melting live terminals on one product is really odd to see.

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A large number of UK receptacles contain some sort of thermal response fuse (lived there for almost 2 years and in EU for 27 years), and they generally go up to 13A. Problem is power. In the US, 20A @ 120V means a total instantaneous AC power of 2400VA, whereas the UK 13A plug can deliver a total of 2860VA @ 220V. That extra 460VA is what manufacturers don’t always take into account, causing the trouble. The smart plug is simply not designed to accept that max 2860VA draw a plug (and breaker) in the UK permits. Then boom.

Updated the comment above to change the fuses from rapid to thermal - @mkdr30 is right, nominal power of an appliance is not an indication of the maximum temporary power level that device may draw - Anything containing an electric motor will see a temporary higher draw as the motor starts. Same happens to LED bulbs that spike at start up - which explains why dimmers can handle a lot more incandescent bulb electrical power than LED bulb electrical power. Typical dimmers work for 600VA incandescent or 150VA LED :smiley:

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You said Heiwan, by chance did you mean Heiman?

Heiman is a well-known Z wave device manufacturer, with all the proper zwave certifications:

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/regions/1/categories/16/products?company=549

If the devices actually say Heiwan instead, they are almost certainly Chinese counterfeits.

This is a common issue in China, where the intellectual property laws are different, and it is typical to see a look-alike device, sometimes made in the same factory with the same physical cases, but with a one letter mispelling on the name. These will not have the same safety inspections even if they have the same logos. :disappointed_relieved:

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hi, sorry yes they are Heiman. look genuine, Uk seller. checked out the website address, specs look ok, claim auto cut off overload protection built in (whatever that really means).

Will test to see how they are - ofcourse wont know if theres a problem until there is…

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this is the ebay item. Will test to see how they go.

He he, for others willing to try, kids, don’t try this at home? :smiley:

Also, be aware that many electronics manufacturers, among them Aeotec, consider anything sold by eBay to be used and will not honour the warranties.

not worries about this - PayPal offer much stronger buyer protection than your average manufacturer anyway. Frankly guys - I’ve spent good money on potentially dangerous samsung outlets, so faith is going for the brand for safety doesn’t always hold out.

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I’m seriously sceptical about any of the plug in sockets for power monitoring anymore.

Anyone know of the options in terms of either clamps or in wall stuff which will handle the large appliances? (Taking into account any spikes etc)

I’ve seen the Aeon labs clamps but the 2 and 3 clamp versions are for 3 phase supplies which most UK homes aren’t - only larger houses/flats/commercial buildings are

Kraeg

The Aeotec heavy duty in Wall zwave module is popular but expensive. Spec’d for up to 40A and 9600W

This switch should be installed on its own circuit or using a fused spur.