For what it’s worth, I’ve gone with almost totally smart switches and dimmers instead of smart bulbs.
I can see the novelty appeal of color-changing bulbs. But with smart switches, I don’t have to create a user manual for the home for guests. Everything works as anyone would expect.
With smart bulbs you have to deal with making sure power to the bulb is never cut off. At best that means using a special switch. At worst it means making sure nobody flips off certain switches. Or putting some kind of ugly cover over your switches.
But that’s just my preferences. As @JDRoberts says, everyone has their own needs and preferences.
I notice you’ve got a brown toggle-style switch, presumably with a brown switch plate.
If you want to stick with that color, be sure you buy a brand that can do it. Zooz may have changed recently but their devices have only come in white in the past.
GE/Honeywell/Jasco (devices manufactured by Jasco, sold under multiple brand names) have interchangeable faces. Levitons do also. Those are the ones I’m familiar with.
Yeah, I think I’m with you on this one. I thing smart lights would be great if i was trying to make scenes or something but for something like this project…its mostly unnecessary lol
I don’t really care for the brown . I just bought this house about 2 months ago, and lets just say…the old owners had some interesting taste in color. Basic white works for me!
One of the most popular uses with home automation is as alerts. Have a light turn blue when the mail arrives, pink when the laundry is done, green when there’s someone at the door… Different people find different uses.
When it comes to color temperature (cool white to warm white), some people are very sensitive to this and really appreciate being able to set the color temperatures. Cool white for precision work, warm white for relaxing.
Some people like to use what is called a circadian light where the color changes during the day to match the natural sunlight changes outdoors.
But for other people, all of this is moot: they just want dimmer control, and that’s it.
Anyway, the following thread is very old, so a lot of the devices being discussed have since been discontinued, but the use case ideas are all still relevant if you’re interested.
Yeah, i see. lol Man that really has my brain going in overdrive.
So tomorrow, I think that i will remove that light switch, or just try to pull it out further so that I can figure out if this thing has a neutral or not. I will take plenty of pictures, like someone mentioned earlier. I do really appreciate everyone’s help.
So, I checked the switch again and labeled the load and line wires. I also pulled the switch out further and it doesnt look like there is any other wires. The only thing that i noticed was that there are 2 wires on the Line nut, but I’m assuming that wire is carrying voltage to another switch
Unfortunately, my house was built in the 60’s lol.
So, just to be clear…is there any advantage/disadvantage to not having a neutral or is it purely for safety?
I was just reading an article on smarthome.com that said
"Some dimmable smart switches can be fitted with no neutral wire.
What’s crucial here is the dimming functionality. This reduces the flow of power from your light to your switch to a trickle. While this power will not be sufficient to activate the bulb, it will ensure the switch continues to communicate with the home hub."
Does this mean that the dimming won’t function as normal?
Correct, it’s a newer requirement. It was part of the 2011 NEC revision, but that’s not law, it’s just a national industry standard. It’s still up to individual jurisdictions as to whether they adopt the NEC in full or override parts of it.
And it doesn’t apply retroactively. So basically, if your house in the US was built before 2011, it might not have neutrals at all the switch boxes. and if it was built before 1985, it would be very rare for it to have neutrals at the switch boxes.
Okay, thanks for making sense of all that for me. So, I guess I will go ahead and order the switch from Jasco that was posted earlier. I don’t remember anyone talking about motion sensor compatibility, does anyone have a link to a post or anything regarding that? I’m still new to this website, so i’m having my struggles navigating the website
You have three different options depending on exactly what you need
if you are OK with a set up that only works when the Internet is working, you can get any motion sensor at all that works with smartthings and it will send a message to smartthings when it detects motion and then smartthings will tell the switch to turn on.
if you want to set up that will work even if the Internet is out as long as your smartthings hub is working, you just need a Z wave or zigbee motion sensor that works with the basic features of the hub. In the future, this will be almost all zwave and zigbee devices that work with smart things because of the new platform, called edge. So you have a lot of choices, but I would probably recommend Zooz. Zooz is the house zwave brand for the retailer the smartest house. they are moderately priced, well engineered, and very popular in the community.
They have a very basic model for just under $20, or check their site for some more expensive models that also have temperature and humidity sensors.
My personal choice would be the one with the latest and greatest Z wave technology, one that uses the 700 series. You probably don’t need that, but it does have some advantages in range and battery life. That variant lists at about $37.
if you want a setup that will work even if your smartthings hub dies, you can use zwave direct association. This method allows direct association between two zwave devices, so that messages don’t have to go through the hub. Both the Zooz models I’m already linked to do have this ability, as do many, but not all, zwave motion Sensors. But note that this only works if the switch is also a Z wave switch. You can’t mix and match protocols with this method the way you can with the other two
The only thing about this feature is that smartthings doesn’t make it easy to set up. You can do it, but it’s a little tricky. so a lot of people settle for option one or two.
A note about zigbee vs zwave
Remember how in option one above I said you could use any motion sensor that works with smartthings? Some people, including me, have historically had a preference for zigbee battery operated sensors over Z wave battery operated sensors, because they tended to have better power management, so they could be a little smaller and they woukd react a little quicker. The question is whether that really matters in a practical sense. Zwave has been getting better and better (The new 700 series are much better), so since it’s now late 2021, I wouldn’t argue against a zwave motion sensor the way I used to. Now I think it’s just flip a coin. If you like the look or the features or the ability to set up direct association of a specific Z wave model, then get that one.
Do understand the issue of positioning, as it will apply to either a Z wave or a zigbee sensor.
I’m not an electrician but here’s what I think I know, subject to correction by more knowledgeable folks.
Neutral is the return path to complete the circuit. Dumb on/off switches just cause a break in the hot line and the neutral isn’t necessary. Similarly, dumb dimmers manipulate the current coming from the breaker on the hot side. In both cases the circuit return path is thru the light being controlled.
Smart switches need to have at least some power at all times. The computer inside them obviously can’t respond to commands if it’s totally powered off. So they use the neutral as part of a circuit which powers the switch itself, separate from the circuit that powers the light being controlled. I’m sure that’s vastly oversimplifying how it’s done!
As explained in other responses, the no-neutral dimmers work by not ever reducing the current to zero. A trickle remains flowing to power the dimmer itself. Depending on the light fixture(s) you’re controlling, you might find that the trickle of current still present at the lowest dim setting still keeps the light on very dim. I don’t think there’s any way to figure out ahead of time if your combination of dimmer and lights will have this problem. I think it’s more likely to occur with LEDs.
The need for a trickle means that it’s effectively impossible to have a no-neutral on-off switch.
Man that really has my brain going in overdrive.
