Once you get everything organized you can see overlap and places where you can possibly consolidate rules.
As with @bamarayne findings, there have been times where I’ve combined rules and triggers and didn’t seem to get the execution that I did with separate rules / triggers, but I can’t say I’m 100 positive it wasn’t some sort of system issue going on at the same time that made me think it was due to my combining rules.
Initially I had a hell of a time with Rule Machine…going back and forth between it and Smart Lighting…because I thought I wasn’t doing something right with Rule Machine. As it turns out I was experiencing platform issues all along.
Case and point why Bruce yanked the plug on his unprecedented support.
Anyway, I got off track there. I am still experimenting with multiple small singular rules vs. more complex fewer rules. It may be a YMMV thing.
[quote=“bamarayne, post:953, topic:29577, full:true”]
1 - if you keep your mode changes and routines separate you will use the same amount of rules either way. If you combine them, you will have less rules, but much more complex rules.
2 - I programmed my modes like this back in Dec or Jan, before the meltdown. (Which, according to yesterday’s announcement, is where we are back to. I understand the system is now as it basically was in Jan. We will see.) I had originally combined ine into large complex rules. I found that I was randomly missing actions sometimes, kind of like only part of the routine completed. Which is exactly what it was. It was exceeding the app run time limit and being dumped by the server before completion. A lot of the time, it was the mode change itself that got dumped…[/quote]
OK, so…I get the part about the differences between whether to use fewer more complex rules or more simpler rules. That’s not my question here now.
What I meant to ask was this…
As far as you see it (acknowledging that I agree that we may each find ways that work better for us; here I’m just trying to see if I understand your take on the difference between using switches or buttons), are the following two things the only things that seem problematic (or in some way, potentially problematic) with me using on/off switches as opposed to momentary buttons?
lots more rules and actions in the rules to do it with switches than with buttons
more things needing to fire in the context of the current ST system instability could bring more trouble than help
Is that it, or are there other issues to think about in the context of whether to use on/off switches -vs- momentary buttons?
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
956
Ok, I’m sorry, I thought you wanted me to explain my thought process…
Yes, I see, and have seen, both of those as potential problematic scenarios.
Thanks for the spreadsheet. This looks great. I’m trying to follow the logic and used the bathroom as an example. I tried creating my own, but something is not right.
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
958
the Actions for True and Actions for False are exactly the same. Change the Actions for False to making the Master Bath Lights - Night rule True.
Master Bath Lights - Night:
Actions for False - Remove the Delay by 30 seconds and choose
Pending Off: Bathroom Light: 30 seconds:Cancellable
Note - Turn off the enable/disable with private boolean option until you get the rules working. I’m not sure this will work when using the private boolen as the on/off for the rule. I’ve actually never done it that way as I choose to use a virtual switch or physical switch for my disable.
Thanks @bamarayne. Sticking with the bathroom example, I see you are using an Override switch. Could I ask, what physical switches you are using? I know how to create VS and I guess I could use that to disable but not sure how to do it with a physical switch. I’m using the physical GE toggle switches (12727 & 12729).
Side Note: Although I like them, trying to get 2 of them to fit in a 2 gang box is giving me a headache. My switch boxes have a mud ring around them making the width a bit too small especially the corners.
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
960
In my master bath I’m using a contact sensor as the override along with a virtual switch. It opens and it runs its own rule, which turns on the VS. The VS disables all automations in the room except for the rule that is triggered by the contact sensor. That rules is called Wendi’s lights.
This gives me the ability to shut down all automations via voice control and it gives my wife the ability to shut down the automations and run things the way she wants.
In my guest room the GE switch on the wall turns on the ceiling fan. There is only the one drop from the fan so it controls the lights and the fan. When that fan is switched on via a physical press, it also turns on the lamp in the corner. Just in case the ceiling fan lights were turned off at the fan.
It is almost instances because of the rule called hue refresh.
I created a custom command refresh(). In the hue refresh rule the custom command is ran on devices I want to have a constant fresh state reflected in the system. So the rule is triggered by any motion in the house from any of 11 different motion sensors. This keeps my hue lights always current, since the hue bridge only refreshes the bulbs every five minutes, which can dramatically screw up your automatons.
I also use a physical switch piss override in my office. If I just go in for a sec, the motion sensor turns on and off the lights. If I am staying I just reach over turn off the lights, wait a sec, and turn them back on.
I use it again to turn on an override VS for my foyer and stair lights. If I want them to stay on and not turn off, I physical press the foyer light switch.
Oh, no sorries needed. I just wanted to get at a particular point, but trust me, your thought processes, when expressed, even if it’s something I’m not focusing on at the moment, they are always taken in, and added to mine as much as possible, regardless. So, thanks!
WOW!!!. It sounds like you have some setup, but everything plays nice plus the addition to turn off automation. I’m going to go slow and start off with the bathroom/kitchen/porch light and see how far thing get.
1 Like
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
963
Yeah, it all plays real nice together.
I actually went and got some more stuff today for the master suite… Yay!
I got all of my modes setup, but I’m stuck on the sleep mode. I want the lights to go off after 30 seconds of no motion, but I only see minutes as an option. Is it possible to do a pending off of less than a minute? When setting the delay action you can do minutes.seconds and milliseconds, but for pending off cancellation, I only see minutes.
I’m using 1.9.0a/1.9.1f. The none cancelable option above I do see second and milliseconds but when using the cancelable option I only get second.
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
967
Pending Off/On with Cancellation is only available in the Rule option. It is also only available with minutes pending. If I remember what Bruce said, the pending timer is different than the Delay timer.
I’ve been reading your spreadsheet and it has been extremely helpful in organizing things for me. I now have both of my baths setup using what I found you described as the hub and spoke method which I really like. Now I’m trying to figure out the easy way to implement an override so my wife can control things, but I still can have the automation return.
For example, I have my bath lights come on with motion and off with no motion after a set time depending on mode. I added a second motion to basically cover the entire room. This works ok, but today, the time between the motion and lights on has been a step or 2 slow which has caused the WAF to drop today causing me to investigate a manual mode.
Thus, when using your override in your office are you using the physical switch on the wall to turn on the virtual switch that triggers the override while the motion is what initially controls the lights, or does the wall switch also turn on/off the lights. I see in your bath you are using a contact open/close sensor to turn on your bath override.
I think my resume program has () at the end…maybe?
1 Like
bamarayne
(Jason "The Enabler" as deemed so by @Smart)
973
In the bathroom opening the contact sensor turns on the override. Closing it turns off the override and allshows the automatons to resume.
In my office I physical press the switch to disable the automatons. In rule machine, the action of physical press is an option. Yes, the physical press turns on the override.
One thing to note about the office override. The switch iAUSD in the detection range of the moron sensor. Which means the lights are on before I get to the switch. So, I have to physically turn off the switch, count to five to make sure it updates in the system and then physically turn it back on. That’s a pia but since I rarely use it, I don’t mind.
