[RELEASE] Resilient - My Ecobee Device & ecosystem v5 - The smartest thermostat under ST with new "comfort tips" features and Unique Integration with Echo/Ask Alexa

askalexa
ecobee
thermostat
climatecontrol
dth_hvac

(Jody) #738

(Yves Racine) #739

Hi,

Let’s hear my contributors without trying to censure them. I have received a lot of positive feedback by emails, as people were not able to post anything on this forum for a while, or they would find the context too toxic to post.

One positive thing I got from this exercise is that my contributors want a simpler way to get the code. They don’t want to be “spammed” with frequent updates. That’s why I introduced the concept of “like” my thread in the 1st place: to avoid “spamming” people with updates when they don’t want to receive them. Some contributors just wanted to download the code once, and not receive any updates. Things would be much simpler with an AppStore, but ST decided to not build one.

I will look into it ways with my ecommerce web provider to ways to do a “pull” approach instead of a “push”.

I have to do some tests, but it looks like some contributors were already using the “pull” approach with the original download link provided to them. It seems that they were able to get the newer “version” by just clicking on the download link several times (days after). So, I will look into this “pull” approach during the Holidays.

My ecobee’s implementation will be added new features soon with the ecobee switch, so I want to be ready for it. I don’t have much time to respond to some personal diatribes against me. And, this is a personal “fun” hobby of mine, so I want to keep it that way.

Thnx for all your support!!


(Mark) #740

Wow, the last few days of this thread has been kinda fascinating to read.

Just my opinion, but I think this is a major part of the problem that some people seem to run into with this developer.

The developer seems to want to straddle what has turned out to be a difficult line between hobbyist that does this stuff in his spare time (with a very reasonable expectation that he receive compensation for his time), and professional who provides a service to customers (with a not-so-reasonable expectation that customers give up their right to share negative opinions with others).


(Nt3752) #741

Hello. I support the current update process. Great product. I appreciate getting the latest fixes/updates. Thank you for a great product and your continuing updates.


#742

For those of you that have no issue with the developers character or the business practice of how he issues updates to his customers who have contributed, donated or whatever other terminology you want to call it, it’s still a customer paying for a product.

With that being said, I have NO issue with a developer making money from their SmartApp. I am all for it and I have paid for SmartApps and services myself.

The business practice complaints:

The negative posts that you have all seen over the last 10 days from the people complaining about the product are not new. This goes way back and there are many people that have complained from the beginning of his threads. If a person donates or contributes, they are in the IN club, but if at any point a person who has an issue with the product for whatever reason and they post anything that could be construed as negative feedback or suggestions or issues they have had, that paying customer NO LONGER receives product updates.

For ALL of you here, can you imagine if SmartThings performed business the same way that he is charging everyone? You purchase your SmartThings hub and install everything and then a month later you are having some sort of issue. If you posted a negative review or some sort of negative feedback in the community, SmartThings will no longer allow you to install updates to the Product. LMAO - Almost every single customer here would be stuck on the first release of SmartThings.

The people that are complaining over the last 10 days in this thread, if you look closely, they are contributing in other threads to help out other community members, so if you think that they are just targeting this guy over $20 or $30, think again. They have repeatedly told you that this isn’t about the money, it’s about the way he has collected the money and in turn, refused updates for those that don’t post positive comments.

SmartThings is not going to get involved as they have no legal obligation as 3rd Party SmartApps go, but the way he is collecting money and basing it on a positive review only that you continue receiving product updates is of in itself, in my opinion a horrible business practice that is going to continue to raise flags with people, I would think that SmartThings would at some point step in and say, Hey, maybe you should think about changing your model a bit.

I can only imagine that if SmartThings, Apple, Google or any business conducted business this way based on positive reviews only after we have your initial money, you no longer get to receive our updates.

That is the the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. A business with 100% positive reviews and feedback. Sorry, this is not realistic in the world we live in. And again, for those that have never had an issue or a run in, that’s great for you.

As for Character:

Most of you may have not had any issues from a Support aspect and that’s great and I hope that continues for you long into the future, but there are people, who are maybe new to SmartThings, have had trouble installing or didn’t follow an instruction and they became kind of a Support nightmare (in his eyes) and he will speak in a condescending tone or get super frustrated with them and not want to deal with it.

He has stated that the best customer support is NO customer support. Well, sorry, that’s just not realistic. If people are paying for a product, the expectation of receiving Support and Product updates should be a given no matter what a comment, feedback or review made is in a positive or negative context.

I will admit that maybe some of my posts over the last week were a bit harsh and could have used better verbiage to convey the message, but there was nothing but truth in the message I was trying to convey to him.

Nobody is trying to hurt his business or put his product “Under Attack”. He fails to understand from a developers mentality what paying customers deserve from a customer service aspect.

Even in his last post, he fails to understand what these people are trying to say to him. They are frustrated and irate and yet it’s him that is under personal attack.

I personally received a message from Yves 4 days ago after he went looking through all my posts where I am contributing and trying to help out other community members. I assist @tonesto7 on his NST Manager product because I am a customer and know the product pretty well. I don’t work for or with him, but I like to give back for the time that he has put in developing his product and try to make life a little easier and assist those that have run into problems that I have experienced in the past.

Now he personally stated to me:

  1. That I would give up after 3 months in trying to assist these people, especially guys like … and called this person out by name, basically calling this guy an idiot. What kind of character is that in a person who views any customer this way. The guy had quite a few issues uninstalling (which turned out to be a SmartThings issue) the product and we spent quite a bit of time working through that issue.

  2. Specifically stated that the best customer support is no customer support. If a customer support is required, then it means that your product has some design flaws. Seriously people, a perfect product? For him to say this, it’s just ridiculous.

  3. The list goes on and on

I can post your message in its entirety if you want @yvesracine. Don’t bother to edit it, as I have already captured it in multiple screenshots. I would rather not go here as I am not here to see you fail, but trying to convey that the way you are currently doing business and the way that you treat some of your customers isn’t right and hoping that somehow, someway you can be humble enough to realize that you are in no way perfect or superior to anyone in the community. If I post this, it will shed more light on how you currently see this and even some of your SUPPORTING CUSTOMERS now, are going to understand a little more about you.

You have a great product and I do hope that you succeed, but until you understand that these people have a good reason for their complaints and the way they have been treated and accept partial responsibility and the way that you conduct business, this isn’t going to go away.

I understand your difficulties in being a developer and then trying to be the sole support of the product. But when you delve into charging your customers a package (and you can use any verbiage you want whether it be via contribution or donation), then you now have an obligation to support those customers. It’s no longer a hobby when they are paying for a product or a service. If it’s free, then hey, yes, it’s a hobby.

If you could read between everything that all these people are saying, you would simply issue an apology to all of those that you have affected in a negative way and see the error of your ways, and refund those few people their contributions or donations, then they might begin to see you in a different light.

I have been as truthful as I can to you and I have said nothing that deems this as a flaggable entry.

This has all become public because you refuse to see it behind closed doors from everyone who has tried to reason with you outside of the public eye.

Please take some time and think about this before you give some sort of rash reply, and understand that you have responsibility in why this is happening to you as well.


(Mark) #743

I gotta agree with that. The term mandatory contribution always made zero sense to me.

The developer has an online store with a software product, and money must exchange hands for a consumer to receive access to it. That’s a purchase, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that at all. So the insistence on referring to it as a contribution has always struck me as disingenuous.

The community developers who make their code available freely but accept voluntary payments via PayPal are, in fact, asking for contributions.

I am in no way suggesting that one method is inherently better or more valid than the other, but I do think we should be honest with ourselves and one another about the nature of the relationship between a developer and a user of the developer’s code.


(Steve White) #744

It would seem that your “incentivized supporters” (the ones who you give a direct benefit in exchange for a positive review) have been the largest group causing the thread to be locked. They are therefore censuring themselves. Just wanted to make sure that fact isn’t overlooked.


(Michael Hulligan) #745

Admittedly I’m not a frequent contibutor to these threads, however I’m disinclined to bash or otherwise diminish the contributions of folks like Yves and others because they require me to “like” their apps which I am using. The code has been totally reliable and more functional than “native” intergarations. Seems like a more than fair trade for this functionality. If you don’t feel similarly stop using the code. Pretty straightforward to me.


(Kirk Hilzinger) #746

This is beyond ridiculous. But my take (because it seems everyone else has):

1.) The policy of requiring a positive review is something I am against. Let those who love it sing it praises. Let those who loathe it, bring up their concerns. I look at the reviews on Amazon. You can tell in the reviews if the person bashing a product has a legitimate complaint or not. But, requiring positive reviews cheapens those reviews. If your wife asks you how she looks and you say good, it is not like just looking at her out of the blue and telling her she looks good. This is fishing for compliments.

2.) The letter to the users was bad. Why would you want to air your dirty laundry to other customers?

3.) The refund letter was bad. It was basically requiring a non-disclosure and a retraction in order to get a refund and that is not much of a refund. Come on. The customer is not always right and neither is the vendor. It should be up to the rest of us to see if the complaint is legitimate.

4.) I am one for more incremental updates IF they are tested as thoroughly as possible. Code is wrote by humans and not a single one is perfect so there is going to be a need for updates…security practices, alone, account for most update issue. Microsoft had a tough time with updates breaking things. They got better. Apple is going through that now with their i bug. You live and you learn. But, the vendor has to be open to looking at the issue. And, it is common practice for updates to cost except if it involves a security issue. It is typically just the ones that add new features that you pay for or need a contract to obtain.

5.) I know what I have with my Ecobee. There can certainly be more but because of the above, what reassurance, as a potentially new customer, am I going to buy something and then be required to sing its praises even if it does not work to get updates that might make it work? This does not pose this in a good light. I would rather install it, see if it works, and then if it amazes me, I write positive reviews. I seldom write reviews positive or negative (you really have to screw up because I research before I buy something). I have not wrote many positive reviews in my life, or negative ones. It is much like IT. If you are doing your job right, not many pays it a mind. It is only when you go above or below expectations that you hear anything. Ecobee was one because I think their product went above and beyond. Ring, not so much–still waiting on Ring to integrate their floodlight cam (and I have added that complaint to the post on that topic as well as given them that complaint), but I have made positive reviews on the doorbell.


(Yves Racine) #747

Please read the terms of service at my store and the feedback from my contributors. I’m not asking for positive reviews.

If your principles go against my terms of service, I totally understand, and there are other options available. I invested a lot of time & efforts into my reliable & comprehensive DTHs and smartapps. There are reasons behind those terms of services that I’ve explained in my previous post (updates are pushed, some contributors don’t want updates and feel “spammed”).

Otherwise, I can explain again them to you at services@maisonsecomatiq.com.

Regards.


(Paul Silverstein) #748

Yves has put much effort into a solution and its up to each individual if they want to purchase it or not. I appreciate contributors such as Yves adding value to the ST marketplace and disappointed to see such an uproar for such a petty cost and something he’s doing for all of us. If you like it, buy it. If not, move on. Thanks Yves please keep up the great work.


#749

I’m not going to get involved with the discussion here. However, I will say that the DTH, for me, has been rock solid and I’m definitely satisfied with the support given. If anything, like previously stated, there are too many updates (not a terrible problem to have).


(Jim Gaudette) #750

Quick question. If the hub is online but ecobee is off line will the windowordooropen app still turn off the ecobee if sliding door sensor is left open?

Setup is in a condo we rent out (so can’t test) and use this to keep the electric bill down (by half in summer).

Thanks


(Yves Racine) #751

No, it won’t work as the command needs to be transmitted to the thermostat unit via wifi. The thermostat needs to be connected.
Regards


(Jim Gaudette) #752

Figured as much but when I saw it showed off in ST I was crossing my fingers…

Guess it’s down till we get over there and fix wifi #2.

TY


(Jeremy S) #753

I noticed a few days ago that my two remote sensors have stopped updating the temperature in the smartthings app. Motion seems to be working but temp is stuck. I checked what the Ecobee itself is reporting and it seems to be updating just fine on that end. I’ve tried updating everything, including, remotesensorsinit and myremotesensor. I’ve also re-ran the apps within smartthings with no luck. What could be the problem? Other than that everything as been working almost flawlessly for over a year on two different hubs. Thanks for all the time and effort you’ve put into this.

Edit: Actually, looks like the thermostat itself hasn’t been updating in smartthings either. I’ve had it turned off all day and it still shows as heating.


(Yves Racine) #754

@Jeremy_S,

Have you updated to the latest version (MyEcobee Device v5.9.9n, My EcobeeInit v3.3.2)?

Regarding the remote sensors, you also need to check if you have the remoteSensorInit smartapp v2.81 as this version allows to rename the motion sensors within ST. If you don’t have the latest version, you may have issues if you rename the sensors under ST.

If you still have issues after the update, please send your logs to services@maisonsecomatiq.com. This is how to enable detailed tracing in the IDE:

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=My_Ecobee_Device#Issue_.239:_I_want_to_get_more_tracing_in_the_IDE

Regards.


#755

I was just updating the various apps and now I see two MyEcobeeInit in my IDE smartapps section. I think I accidentally hit publish twice. I tried to delete one (both of them actually) and it says in use so can’t delete. Is there a way to get rid of one? Thanks.


#756

I like my ecobee device so far. Don’t close it.


(Yves Racine) #757

I’ve documented most of the issues under the troubleshooting section at the ST community wiki:

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=My_Ecobee_Device#Troubleshooting

For your use case, refer to

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=My_Ecobee_Device#Issue_.2313:_I.27d_like_to_uninstall_My_ecobee_device_and_its_remote_sensors

Regards.