SmartThings Community

Osram/Sylvania Lightify (it works)

#201

I’m hoping they meant REALY early 2016 - I just put in a pre-order for one of these: http://amzn.com/B0197840KQ. It looks like it’s an actual US version - different part number than the UK color bulbs and it says 120v.

I also saw these color flood and recessed lights that I hadn’t seen before but I didn’t order any:
http://amzn.com/B0196M601A
http://amzn.com/B0196M5YAS

I was surprised to see that they’ve also got an empty listing for a switch: http://amzn.com/B0196M620Y
I wonder if they know that this is visible :smiley:

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(Mike Whitaker) #202

Question - hope does Lightify Pro tie in to these?

I ask because of http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools-and-services/tools/lightify---smart-connected-light/lightify-pro---intelligent,-connected-light-for-professional-applications/lightify-pro-products/lightify-pro-pbc/index.jsp

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#203

Very interesting product! Before we go any further we should note that the four square light switches shown in the picture are not the product. They just represent typical UK light switches. The product is the small octagonal relay with the wires coming out of it in the lower left of the picture which has four end points and therefore can control up to four switches. The product is called Lightify pro PBC. It’s an in wall relay like the Aeotech or Fibaro, except this one is reportedly using the zigbee light link protocol.

If all that is true, it’s the first relay I’ve seen using the ZLL profile instead of ZHA.

The lightify pro line was just introduced a couple months ago. It’s intended as a ZLL lighting system for small offices and businesses, and uses examples of a restaurant, a doctor’s office, etc.

It’s being marketed (Europe only for now, as far as I can tell) to professional lighting installers, not as a DIY retail product. It includes a pretty nice commissioning tool for the installer, and a separate control app for the end user.

According to the website, it should work just fine with the lightify bulbs when used with the gateway.

http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools-and-services/tools/lightify---smart-connected-light/lightify-pro---intelligent,-connected-light-for-professional-applications/operating-principle-of-lightify-pro/index.jsp

I don’t know how well it would work with SmartThings. It gets really tricky because SmartThings doesn’t use the ZLL profile for the hub. It uses ZHA. Based on the standard, the other devices are supposed to fall back to a subset of ZHA when paired with the ZHA Coordinator (like the SmartThings HUB), but different manufacturers implement this differently, and results can be erratic. And my guess is features like dimming might not work.

All of which is to say it’s a very interesting device, and a ZLL relay could help with the switch problem, but I think it may not work very well with SmartThings. I haven’t heard if ST is planning to test the Lightify pro line in Europe for ST compatibility or not.

@tyler @sticks18

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(Mike Whitaker) #204

Wow. Helpful and educational answer D Thank you very much!

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(Justin) #205

I have a question about the reliability/range of the Gardenspot. I have Gardenspot lights in my front yard and never had a problem with them.

I also have some in my backyard and these frequently lose the ability to communicate with the ST Hub. What I mean by that is when I press on/off or change colors, nothing happens.

Knowing what little I know about the system I understand the lights operate by way of Zigbee which sort of creates a mesh network to daisy chain devices between each other meaning if your hub is point A and the gardenspot is point C 200 ft. away you may need a Zigbee device B to help carry that signal over.

So… I have some hue bulbs on my patio. These are always reliable and connected to the ST network. They are about 40 feet from the OSRAM gardenspots and there are no obstructions between the devices. It is my understanding Hue also works on Zigbee. Is this good enough or will I require something else because the constant unreliability of the gardenspots are a bit frustrating.

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(Jason) #206

You will probably need something else. I would put in outlet in the middle. Bulbs don’t repeat when the power to then is turned off at the switch. Also I don’t think the hues repeat for anything other than hues. There are many threads on zigbee zha and ZLL repeaters.

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(Kim) #207

If anyone in the UK is looking for some.
I Just picked up 4 for the price of 3 on Amazon, of the colour Osram bulbs.

K

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(Scott Steinhorst) #208

Hi Everyone,

I am brand new here and brand new to automation. I am starting to renovate all the lighting in my house and I’m thinking that Osram LIghtify bulbs with a SmartThings hub and some sort of switches may be the way to go. I am delighted to discover the expertise, enthusiasm and helpfulness in this ST community forum.

I could use some help understanding if a system could work the way I wish it to and what the appropriate set of parts would be.

I live in Seattle and am often home during the day. Daylight hours are short, and many days are quite gloomy and dark with clouds. With these new color temperature adjustable led bulbs I’m fantasizing about brightening the room/house with bright daylight temperature bulbs during the day, and then switching to a warmer, lower temperature color in the evening.

Between ambient and task lighting (and some accent), I have 3-4 switches/light circuits per room. I have a fair number of 3-way and a few 4-way switches.

Here is how I want it to work:

  1. Lights are turned on and off with a regular(ish) wall switch. This would seem familar and work for non-technical guests, kids and my wife with little or no explaination.

  2. Bulb color (temperature) per automation program (basically daytime and evening, or daytime, evening and bedtime).

  3. Ability to switch between programs with one (or a few) centrally located scene selector button switch mounted on the wall (if it can walk around my kids will lose it).

  4. Use smartphone/tablet to override all or a particular lighting circuit (as in it’s evening warm light program time, but I really want bright daylight task lights on this table so I can really see what I’m doing). I have f.lux and twilight on our computer and phones and my wife is often turning it off for a bit so she can see something better).

  5. If the automation is down, lighting still works with the wall switch. Who cares about the light color as long as they go on and off as desired.

  6. Dimming is optional (but desirable).

  7. I imagine two color temperatures would do (daylight = 6000K-6500K, warm = 2700K). But I generally prefer 3500K lighting, so three scenes would be better (daylight = 6500K, evening warm = 3500K, and bedtime = low as possible 2700K).

Does anyone know if the lowest color temperature (2700K) on these type of bulbs is orange/blue blocker enough to make a difference with circadian rhythms? (And brushing teeth before bed or using the bathroom in the night without getting woken up?)

  1. Cost. I can imagine spending the money on the Lightify bulbs (especially if I go room by room) and a hub, and one or so scene selector controls. I’m concerned about having the funds if I also need 3-4 expensive switches per room as well.

  2. I can imagine some special case motion triggered lights (mostly outside), and maybe some occupancy/humidity controlled bathroom fans at some point.

Minimum functionality to go for it =
- daylight lighting during day, warm lighting in evening
- lights on and off with wall switches
- lights still go on and off if automation down
- affordable enough

Is this possible? Thank you all so much!!

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(John) #209

If you turn off the power to the bulb, the bulb no longer communicates with the hub.

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(Wylie Graham) #210

hi @scottks,

i’ve been thinking about the same setup and have trialed the lightify bulbs. i found that they don’t really warm up as much as i’d have liked them to. additionally, they can’t take instructions while turned off by a switch that cuts power to the bulb, which is pretty annoying. right now it seems like you have two options. first, wire all your switches to on and use smart button controls to turn the lights on/off via smartthings, this will keep the bulbs powered on and in charge of their own output. pretty much the only option if you want the lightify functionality. option 2 is to scrap using lightify and just use dumb bulbs on dimmers. i’ve found that the philips warm glow line dims down nicely, the light definitely gets warmer as they dim. they’re definitely not as blue at max brightness as the lightify bulbs can be, so it really depends on what you’re going for, effect-wise.

there are other options, of course, but they all seem to require extensive programming and training of non-technical folks on how not to break the setups.

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(Chris) #211

I did the same thing. I don’t have a good picture but I have three different sets that will be a permanent fixture in my sidewalk/front garden. They case a really nice light on the house. Super easy setup with Smart Things. I tried the Osram hub just to see if there was any different functionality like color loops but it was as basic as it could get so I integrated directly to ST.

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(Scott Steinhorst) #212

Thanks @bago,

I have read this (nice, long) thread and got that when the bulb is off the hub can’t communicate with it. Where I got confused is there seems to be various ways to work with that and different ways people want their system to work (or different variations people can tolerate). So I thought I’d post how I want my system to work specifically and see if there is a way. I figure I’m fine with the hub not talking to the bulb when the switch is off because I always want to use the switch (not the hub) to turn on the bulb.

Thanks!

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(John) #213

I use remotes to trigger the zigbee LED’s and some are tied to physical switches (just not the circuit that they are on). Also keep in mind that many zigbee lights turn on (and stay on) when the power is restored.

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(Scott Steinhorst) #214

Thanks @WylieGraham,

Rats that’s interesting that the lightify bulbs don’t seems as warm as you like. I’ve been swapping an orange cfl into my bathroom sconce at bedtime for teeth brushing and night time bathroom trips, but I don’t know what color temperature that is. But I’ve seen 2700K bulbs and they are obviously much cooler than an orange bulb. So maybe there is no bulb that goes from bright daylight to really warm, close enough to orange/blue blocker warm. So if I punt on orange/blue blocker warm, I would still like a really cool, daylight color during the dark, cloudy days and a warm temperature in the evening.

So I gather that the problem with cutting power to the bulb is that it turns on at factory default color instead of the color it was last when turned off. And then I don’t know how and how quickly it would be updated to the desired color. Even a flash of factory color on turn on would be really undesirable.

I saw that @Kristopher made a super go at updating non-volatile bulb memory with a new scene before powering off, but if I understood his report correctly the bulb still came on with factory defaults (am I just simple-minded, or would this feature make this technology work for so many more people?)

Interesting your solution with the philips BR30 warm glow. That sounds like a great evening to bedtime solution. I’m not sure where I would use it though, because I would prefer a 3500K evening and really want a daylight for daytime.

So do I understand that the switch-like, old-school lighting control experience that people have working are:

  1. Smart switch controlling each smart bulb circuit (one or more smart bulbs per switch).

The switch always has power and always knows the scene state. When you turn on the smart switch, it tells the bulb to come on at the desired temperature and dim.

Upside – the bulb always does the right thing when switch is switched. Is this true?

Downside – smart switches are expensive and 3-4 per room add a lot of cost. And there are fewer 3-way and 4-way smart switches and they are even more expensive. Is this true? What are some specific examples of smart switches that work successfully – are they that expensive?

  1. Child-lock or otherwise block all the regular, dumb switches to always on, and duplicate them all with smart button controls. Bulbs always have power. The smart button control tells the ST hub what to tell the bulb to do.

Upside – the right thing happens when using the smart button controls.

Downsides:

– Aesthetically somehow you have a full set of old-school switches (maybe blocked or marked) and a set of smart button switches.

– If the home automation parts are not working/offline/mucked for some reason lighting is non-operational.

– Cost. 3-4 smart button light circuit controls per room is expensive. Is this true? What are specific examples of scene selector smart button controls that can do off + day program + evening program + bedtime program?

Do I have this right? Is it the lack of scene storage in bulb non-volatile memory + the cost of smart switches and smart button controls what pushes people into more elaborate designs with motion sensors, timer programs and getting your phone or tablet out to turn lights on and off (of course that’s just how some people want it to work too)?

Thanks again!

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(Scott Steinhorst) #215

Thanks @bago,

Remotes meaning battery powered smart button controls of some sort? What do you mean that some are tied to physical switches but not the circuit they are on?

So if the hub or the remotes are offline (or otherwise mucked), do the lights just stay uncontrollably on (or off) as they last were, or if power got cycled, on at factory scene?

If the hub or remotes are mucked, can you revert to your old-school switches and just have factory scene on/off lights?

Likewise if someone uses the old-school switch instead of the remote or other smart control won’t you just get a regular on/off at factory scene light?

Thanks

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(John) #216

Yes, the remotes are battery powered (rechargeable) and they work great.

I have some tied to physical switches, some to virtual switches, and some to harmony activities. When the switch/activity is triggered, it also triggers certain LED’s. This works great as well.

So if the hub or the remotes are offline (or otherwise mucked), do the lights just stay uncontrollably on (or off) as they last were, or if power got cycled, on at factory scene?

When the power is restored, they all turn on white (about 50% brightness).

If the hub or remotes are mucked, can you revert to your old-school switches and just have factory scene on/off lights?

The devices do not run local. The remotes do. Without the cloud, no control. I can control LED’s in fixtures controlled by a normal switch - this works very well using switches (not all all using the app since it requires the cloud).

Likewise if someone uses the old-school switch instead of the remote or other smart control won’t you just get a regular on/off at factory scene light?

Yes and no. Depends on the app that you have monitoring the button or switch. The apps that I use set the scene (again depending on the method used - it responds differently depending upon how they were triggered).

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(Tim Gray) #217

you do not have enough repeater devices. you need to add more osram lightify bulbs, smart things outlets, or wall box switches.

mine were intermittent until I added 6 ST outlets to the house to only act as zigbee repeaters.

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(Wylie Graham) #218

hi @scottks,

i am not a programming wiz, but it’s definitely not simple to have smart switches and bulbs in concert. unless someone has some fancy programming, the smart switch just handles power, not instructions when pressed.

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(Lee) #219

Folks - having huge issues. I have purchased the Gardespot kit and tried to pair directly to the ST Hub v2.0 without any Osram Hub. I have brought the power supply and the controller within 2 feet of the Hub and tried to pair it, without luck. The ST just will NOT pair. I didn’t have the LED string connected at the time, but I wouldn’t think this matters. I did then connect the LED string and try again, without luck but at a further distance, however, nothing has worked.

Can someone please provide suggestions???

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(Scott G) #220

Try resetting it. Some zigbee devices seem to show up already paired to zigbee network, either during testing or because they were returned by someone else.

Instructions should have come with the Gardenspot, but it follows the general on/off method as bulbs. It’s a little awkward because you have to unplug/plug it back in. Unplug, wait 5 seconds, plug in, wait 5 seconds, repeat about 6 times ending with it plugged in, then wait 10-15 seconds. The bulb should blink a few times rapidly to indicate it was reset. Then try to pair it again.

If that doesn’t work, it might be interference or a bad set. If you have other zigbee devices working, it’s probably a bad set.

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