Osram/Sylvania Lightify (it works)

Maybe using just a smart switch and a basic dumb LED bulb is the better option? You can use your phone or automate the switch same as the bulb, but your wife can use the physical switch without ST losing control of the light. If you also want the dimming functionality, you can always use a smart dimmer switch.

There are use cases for having both smart switch and smart bulbs, and you can use the Big Switch SmartApp to set it so the Osram will mirror the switch on/off, but the Osram won’t be functional if the smart switch is off. All your automations would need to control the switch and you would only control the bulb after the switch is turned on.

For instance, I have a bunch of smart bulbs in recessed cans and a smart switch controls all the cans. Once the switch is on, the smart bulbs allow me to do zone specific dimming/on/off instead of trying to rewire sections and adding additional wall controls. It works ok in this instance because there’s no need to control the bulbs before the switch is turned on, but it does complicate things.

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Again, just depends on what each person needs, I think. If you’re choosing smart bulbs because you want color management or color temperature management, dumb LEDs don’t give you the same features.

Some people who are using both bulbs and switches actually fake it by running constant power to the bulbs and using the switch essentially as a remote. That’s pretty much the same thing as using a battery-operated switch along with the smart bulbs. Automations with the bulbs do work, that’s because the switch doesn’t actually turn off the current load to the bulbs.

At my house we leave the original switches in place with child safety locks on them so that they can be used in an emergency, then add a battery-powered switch nearby as a remote.

So different things work for different people.

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I think anywhere that gets a smart bulb needs to be on a smart switch. Also I am one of the people that does not sick to one protocol. It works nicely for me, I can’t think of a reason to not do it this way unless you have a weak mesh on one of the protocols

I just have to say, I only understand color changing bulbs. Otherwise any uneducated (about ha) person who uses the house will invariably use the switch and kill all automation. I couldn’t bear to tape a switch or hear the complaints about why one person can’t use the app or motion because the other used the switch. Is it just me?

So the switch and the bulb will basically “sync” up. Meaning when the switch is flipped off the bulb will remain “powered” but off state and it will know that it needs to turn back on and vice versa?

Thank you

That is ideal, yes.

The easiest way to do this is with one of the battery powered devices that does not control the load to the light at all. There are now several of these available if you include the ones that just look like a button rather than a switch. But there’s also a couple that do look like switches.

If your local electrical code supports it you can also have the bulbs wired to be always receiving current and then use a non load controlling switch on the wall. That gives you more choices. (Personally I don’t use this because there won’t be any way to turn the lights on and off if the home automation system is down, but there are a lot of people who are happy with this approach. Different things work for different people. :sunglasses:)

Not in my setup, If someone hits the switch to turn off a controllable bulb My automation turns on the switch and sets level of the bulb when it triggers. So yes bulb cannot receive or repeat signal if someone switches the switch off, but the alternative is having someone turn a dumb switch off that you have no automation control of. My wife would Kill me if we couldn’t use the switches.

I by no means am trying to say any other way is wrong, just that the other ways are wrong for me, I don’t want to add extra battery operated switches because:
1 - My house already has a million three, and four ways.
2 - Even if I was able to get my wife to operate just these additional non load switches, It seems virtually impossible to get random family to do this.
3 - I’m a little bit of a control freak - I want to be able to control every piece of electrical equipment I own

Nothing is worse than someone accidental/unknowingly altering lighting behavior. I don’t want my wife waking me up at 2 am because the bathroom light didn’t turn on. Or the in-laws flipping switches then not being able to get the automatons working again.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean.

I would like to basically have the ability to use a switch and the controllable bulb with no additional devices, buttons or remotes or whatnot.

So I’m just thinking of buying a Leviton Model # R02-DZS15-1LZ to replace the “dumb” switch that is there. This way I can let my wife turn the light on and off as she pleases using the switch while the switch and the bulb state stay in sync.

Is this logical or will this not work?

Well basically yes, but I don’t believe that the switch and bulb will stay “in sync” the way you are saying. If someone turns off the switch the bulb by itself is no longer controllable.

If you set up your automations to only control the bulb and someone presses the switch, that automation will fail when it tries to execute.

What I was trying to explain, is that the bulb will turn on if the switch is pressed on, so your automations should just include the switch to be turned on and bulb set level(if wanted to dim it a bit)

I hope that helps explain it a bit -

That’s a load controlling switch.

If The switch controls the current load to the bulb, then when the switch is off, the bulb is off and cannot hear the next network command to turn on. So, no, it will not typically work as you describe.

If your local building codes allow it, you could wire the bulbs to always have power and put that switch on the wall so that it was not controlling the load. Then you could control the bulb by automation or by following the wall switch.

However, if any part of your home automation system was down, the wall switch wouldn’t do anything at all and the Bulb would come on to full power and stay on until the home automation system was restored. That’s OK for some offices, but not typically what people at home want. But everybody’s needs are different.

So you need to consider all three possible situations and the exact behavior that your own family wants to see when they occur:

One) the switch is turned off at the wall

Two) the bulb is changed with an automation

  1. The home automation system is down and someone wants to turn the bulb on or off.

It’s likely possible to get whatever result you want for all three of these but it’s not as simple as swapping out a networked switch for the non-network switch when there are also network bulbs involved.

Also, remember, you do not want a networked dimming switch controlling the current load to a networked dimmable bulb. The results will not be what you expect. Once you have a smart dimmable bulb, you want it to get full current all the time.

But in my experience you can send an on command to the switch and a set dim level to the bulb(if you want it dimmed, if not leave this part out) With pretty much no adverse affects. This is easier than hardwired power to the bulbs, and offers more control.

You will just have to decide if you are OK with the bulb not always having power, You will have to add the turn switch on function to automation’s before changing bulb colors or dimming levels.

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So out in Stuttgart and thought I would check out Saturn for some more bulbs… Nothing on display :frowning: but then heading for the door and found the bargain bin with almost the full range at half price or in UK terms 1/3 of the price… Happy Christmas to me (but not to my credit card)

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@Simon_Goldberger I love the garden lights i just installed some infront of my house along the sidewalk. The wife at first was mad I got some and once I installed them she loved it.

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I have to say, I LOVE THIS! If only I had a house with either a Garden or front lawn…!

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A smart switch with a dumb bulb will stay in sync forever. it is impossible to have the switch off and the bulb on at the same time unless the house is wired very wrong because the smart switch opens the relay inside of it cutting all power to that bulb.

I’m hoping they meant REALY early 2016 - I just put in a pre-order for one of these: http://amzn.com/B0197840KQ. It looks like it’s an actual US version - different part number than the UK color bulbs and it says 120v.

I also saw these color flood and recessed lights that I hadn’t seen before but I didn’t order any:
http://amzn.com/B0196M601A
http://amzn.com/B0196M5YAS

I was surprised to see that they’ve also got an empty listing for a switch: http://amzn.com/B0196M620Y
I wonder if they know that this is visible :smiley:

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Question - hope does Lightify Pro tie in to these?

I ask because of http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools-and-services/tools/lightify---smart-connected-light/lightify-pro---intelligent,-connected-light-for-professional-applications/lightify-pro-products/lightify-pro-pbc/index.jsp

Very interesting product! Before we go any further we should note that the four square light switches shown in the picture are not the product. They just represent typical UK light switches. The product is the small octagonal relay with the wires coming out of it in the lower left of the picture which has four end points and therefore can control up to four switches. The product is called Lightify pro PBC. It’s an in wall relay like the Aeotech or Fibaro, except this one is reportedly using the zigbee light link protocol.

If all that is true, it’s the first relay I’ve seen using the ZLL profile instead of ZHA.

The lightify pro line was just introduced a couple months ago. It’s intended as a ZLL lighting system for small offices and businesses, and uses examples of a restaurant, a doctor’s office, etc.

It’s being marketed (Europe only for now, as far as I can tell) to professional lighting installers, not as a DIY retail product. It includes a pretty nice commissioning tool for the installer, and a separate control app for the end user.

According to the website, it should work just fine with the lightify bulbs when used with the gateway.

http://www.osram.com/osram_com/tools-and-services/tools/lightify---smart-connected-light/lightify-pro---intelligent,-connected-light-for-professional-applications/operating-principle-of-lightify-pro/index.jsp

I don’t know how well it would work with SmartThings. It gets really tricky because SmartThings doesn’t use the ZLL profile for the hub. It uses ZHA. Based on the standard, the other devices are supposed to fall back to a subset of ZHA when paired with the ZHA Coordinator (like the SmartThings HUB), but different manufacturers implement this differently, and results can be erratic. And my guess is features like dimming might not work.

All of which is to say it’s a very interesting device, and a ZLL relay could help with the switch problem, but I think it may not work very well with SmartThings. I haven’t heard if ST is planning to test the Lightify pro line in Europe for ST compatibility or not.

@tyler @sticks18

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Wow. Helpful and educational answer D Thank you very much!

I have a question about the reliability/range of the Gardenspot. I have Gardenspot lights in my front yard and never had a problem with them.

I also have some in my backyard and these frequently lose the ability to communicate with the ST Hub. What I mean by that is when I press on/off or change colors, nothing happens.

Knowing what little I know about the system I understand the lights operate by way of Zigbee which sort of creates a mesh network to daisy chain devices between each other meaning if your hub is point A and the gardenspot is point C 200 ft. away you may need a Zigbee device B to help carry that signal over.

So… I have some hue bulbs on my patio. These are always reliable and connected to the ST network. They are about 40 feet from the OSRAM gardenspots and there are no obstructions between the devices. It is my understanding Hue also works on Zigbee. Is this good enough or will I require something else because the constant unreliability of the gardenspots are a bit frustrating.