SmartThings Community

New ADT partnership, new touchscreen hub and devices 10/29/2017

security
project_security
adt

(Levi) #21

I already have a ADT system with the wireless sensors that were already installed when we bought our house. If they will integrate I will definitely be interested in the hub but as Mark said I plugged my stuff into the tool and $1400-1600. Can’t see myself spending that much. Then I will also have a V2 hub that is now useless.


(ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #22

I understand there is a standard for monitored security; but…

  1. How susceptible are regular ZigBee HA (or Z-Wave) sensors to hacking or failure or whatever the higher security prevents?

  2. SmartThings (including its off-the-shelf sensors) is advertised as a “security system”, and while we know there are several obvious reasons it isn’t in the same league as ADT, ST still offers monitored security via Scout… Are “dual encryption” sensors that much more expensive that SmartThings, Iris, Wink, etc. doesn’t use them? Isn’t that short sighted? I’d say roughly ⅓ of the purpose of all my Contact and Motion sensors us for “home security”, …

In other words, despite other weaknesses of SmartThings as a home security platform,

  • How much more vulnerable are we due to the use of “single-encryption” sensors?

  • Why isn’t the HA industry moving entire towards these “secure sensors”?


(Dominick Barile) #23

Wait til Amazon comes out with theirs


#24

SmartThings is sold as a “home monitoring” system. That is different standard even if most consumers don’t realize it. Take a look at their own product usage guidelines:

Data accuracy and consistency from SmartThings sensors, including those provided by SmartThings directly, resold by SmartThings, or supported by SmartThings, is not guaranteed. Therefore, you should not rely on that data for any use that impacts health, safety, security, property or financial interests.

In contrast, the ADT fine print says the system isn’t perfect, there are things that can go wrong, but that it should reduce your risk. And if you get one of their professionally installed systems, they will pay your insurance deductible, up to $500, if you do have a break in while their system is operating.

More importantly, it’s not just the dual encryption, that’s just an easy factor to point to. It’s the entire engineering of security sensors versus home automation sensors and the reason is simple: cost. It costs more to make a more reliable sensor. They say in the new product description that the new sensors are also designed to reduce the number of false alerts.

So it’s not complicated and it’s not a matter of any one feature. The security piece of the new ADT product will be more reliable overall than SmartThings has been for many different reasons. Whether people want to pay for that or not is up to them. :sunglasses:

It’s easy to add professional monitoring to any IOT system, there are monthly services you can buy. You don’t need official scout integration. If you’re happy with the networking devices that you have and you’re willing to risk paying the false alarm fees, you can do that.

If you want something with everything already prepackaged and with fewer false alarms you can pay more and get that, from any of several different brands.

But ADT is not going to put their brand reputation for reliable systems on the line by connecting to the typical IOT sensor. So there’s not really any argument to be had in that regard.


(Dominick Barile) #25

Only thing that drinks is now u have to have 2 systems. 1 for home automation & 1 for security.


(Dominick Barile) #26

Does it even pay to do home automation if all security packages can’t be combined? It’s really doing 2 of everything…double the cost.


(Dominick Barile) #27

I don’t see anything about camera monitoring.


#28

Many community members now, myself included, have a completely separate security system which doesn’t integrate with SmartThings at all, just because we want the greater reliability or we want central monitoring that can call the fire department. Different things work for different people.

With regard to your other post about Camera integration, that’s true, we haven’t yet been told what if any Camera integration will be Available.


(ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy) #29

I’m not arguing, per se … I’m just trying to quantify the difference in value of “ADT sensors” vs “typical IOT sensors”.

i.e.,

  • Statistically, how much more likely is it for a typical sensor to fail to report or to false report an Event? 20% more? 200% more? 1000% more?
  • I’m presuming that ADT Sensors are not 100% reliable. But SmartThings sensors are, let’s say, 90% reliable. One out of 10 incorrect or unreported Events is bad from a Home Security viewpoint; but what about 1/100 for a 99% reliable sensor?

(Dominick Barile) #30

For me I think I will continue with smartthings but if I was to go the security route, I would probably try something like ring maybe. I have an active house so very rarly is it empty but I would not pay all that mooney for adt. They ate very over priced with what’s out there today.


#31

3 false alarms per year will cost a homeowner about $500 in many jurisdictions, and in some jurisdictions even more. And more and more jurisdictions have eliminated the “first one free” tier and now charge at least $100 for even the first false alarm. This is a huge issue for home security systems.

http://www.lapdonline.org/police_commission/content_basic_view/9160


(Dominick Barile) #32

@JDRoberts what is considered a false alarm?


(Dominick Barile) #33

Reason I’m asking is how reliable are the sensors that companies like add sell.


#34

A false alarm in this context is a call into the fire department or police department.

Most monitored security systems are set up so that when a sensor triggers an alarm, the monitoring company first calls you, but if you don’t answer, they go ahead and call city services.

So if you have a motion sensor set up as part of your alarm system, and it reports motion detected, and that causes a call to the police department but there was no intruder actually there, that’s a false alarm.


(Dominick Barile) #35

Ok. But how reliable are yhier sensors?


#36

You’d have to ask them. I don’t have any idea what they’ll say for the new ones. But obviously the level is acceptable to most people or they be out of business. That’s very different than self-monitored home automation systems, where most people just ignore the false alerts even if they find them annoying. :rage:


(Mark) #37

According to the new page on the ST website you can still use other devices on the “works with ST” list. They just don’t integrate with the security features and won’t trigger a response from the central monitoring agency.

I do wonder whether this hub will be restricted in some way from supporting custom smartapps and device handlers, in the interest of keeping the security functionality as stable/reliable as possible.


(Dominick Barile) #38

Only problem is you ate paying for two sensors instead of 1…more…$$$$$


(Mark) #39

I’m not sure that’s true.

It’ll certainly cost you to upgrade to this new hub and the contact/motion/water/smoke/co sensors that support the security and life safety monitoring. In my case >1500 bucks :flushed:

But presumably we can use the new contact sensors with the new hub to tell us if a window’s open and the forecast calls for rain, for example. Or continue to use an old contact sensor to do the same thing for a window that doesn’t represent a security risk.


(Dominick Barile) #40

All I’m saying is that you are now paying for 2 sensors for Windows & doors & another hub. Now a you will be going back & forth between 2 apps. There has to be a solution that combines both.