Need some help with pool automation

Wiki Projects & Stories
#1

I’m trying to brain storm here on a problem that I’ve incurred regarding a pool remodel i’m doing. Here is my issue.

  1. I’m adding Hayward pool automation equipment to my pool. I know Hayward doesn’t integrate with ST and I’m ok with that.
  2. The electrical wiring for the pool lights does not travel back to the pool equipment. It’s an old pool and they ran the wiring for the lights to a switch that is on the exterior wall of the house. In order for the Hayward to control the lights, the load wire for the lights needs to travel back to the Hawyard control panel and that is a long underground run that doesn’t currently exist.

As a possible solution I’m thinking of doing this.

  1. have the hawyard “think” it has lights attached( lets call this fake lights) by adding a zwave device to the load of the hayward relay.
  2. have a zwave switch in the jbox where the light switch is currently located.
  3. setup an automation so when the hawyard relay turns on and sends voltage to the zwave “fake light” my ST automation also turns on the zwave light switch in jbox.

Hopefully this all makes sense.
My question is this. Is there a zwave device that will change state when voltage is applied to it? I know there are zwave relays that will supply voltage to a load but I’m wondering if what I need for this to work actually exists. It’s a unique situation, I think.

I could just skip the Hayward control of the pool lights and go directly with ST for the lights but I’d like to keep all the pool gear contained in the hayward app.

Appreciate any help provided.

#2

To be honest, I’m really tired today, and I didn’t pay full attention to what your project is going to be. ( I fell out of my wheelchair on Sunday, and then again had a fall while transferring today, and I’m a little out of it.)

But if I understand part of your question, I think the mimolite is what you’re looking for.

Tagging @johnconstantelo

and before anybody asks, no, I wasn’t wearing my seatbelt on Sunday, and yes, that was stupid. :confounded:

#3

JD, so sorry to hear about your fall. Hope you feel better soon. I always appreciate your wisdom, even on your worst days.

You are genius and I think this might work except I was looking for something that would get triggered by an AC voltage input, not DC. I can work around that issue.

What I’m not figuring out through the MIMOlite docs is what type of zwave message it sends out. Is it just a notification or an On/Off signal. No rush on this so if you’re not up to answering now it’s really ok.
thanks.

#4

what about something like a fibro switch, the pool control light output would be wired as an external switch, then just have a mirror App
put the live for the light (Hayward) onto S1
image

#5

Thanks Mark. I’m not quite understanding how this would work for my application.

Currently the wiring for the pool light and the wiring for the Hayward do no exist in the same location. Therefore, I cannot wire the Fibaro to both.

Also, I need the Hayward to trigger the Zwave device when its relay control for the lights is triggered via the Hayward app.

Here’s how I’m envisioning with a crude drawing.

image
725ABEE8-A69A-459B-BBDB-5D75F87663AA.jpeg2224×1668 180 KB

#6

Thanks for tagging me @JDRoberts, and sorry to hear about your your falls! Hope you’re ok.

@Its2loud, this device should work good for you with a little tweaking. The device sends on/off, and open/close if you use the contact sensor terminals. If I remember right, voltage may be available as well as other info. Search for the discussion about someone using the mimolite and potentiometer for their garage door that has DTH code available that exposes more capabilities. I’m mobile right now, and can’t easily search, but I will catch up later.

1 Like
#7

I’m ok, just paying the price for being an idiot. :wink:

Some bumps and bruises and multiple lectures from people who care. LOL! Should be OK by next week.

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#8

If the distance is not too far. I would look for a zwave plus device that can use association. Set your fake switch/relay by the Hayward relay. Use one that is a zwave plus and has more than one association group. Wire the output from the Hayward to the auxiliary inputs. Put another zwave switch on your lights. Then use Zwave Tweaker to set up an association. The advantage is that once set up the Hayward can control those pool lights even if ST or the internet is down. Of course you would still be able control via ST so you set up some other automatons if desired.

You may want to put a small light on the output of the zwave relay by the hayward just to indicate it is working. I’m assuming you have power there so you can use almost any 110v zwave relay or switch.

1 Like
#9

Thanks everyone for your help with this.

@sainsworth, just so I’m clear. You’re saying to use any Zwaveplus relay? But isn’t what I’m trying to do somewhat backwards? When I trigger the Hawyard “lights” that’s going to send voltage to the Zwave device that sends the signal to the actual light switch. I don’t know of any Zwave relays that will accept a 110v input as a trigger input. Or maybe I’m just overthinking this and that’s how all Zwave light switches work.

So when I turn on the Hayward “lights”, that’s as if I’m flipping a light switch on a wall which could also have something like the Fibaro micro switch attached.

I’ve never setup the Zwave association so not sure how it works. I’ll have to do some research.

#10

You are correct. It may not be that easy. Most zwave relays allow an input so you can wire in a switch to control them. The switch could be a regular light switch but the it would not switch power, it would just let the relay sense (with low voltage) if it is on or off. Usually the zwave relay treats the input like a three way light switch. (If the state of the switch changes then change the state of the relay). That way you have full control from both the switch and the through zwave and ST.

If the Hayward is outputing 110v then you would need to put a normal relay on its output. When the power comes on then contacts in the relay close. Those contacts would be connected to the input on the zwave relay. Zwave relay would have to always have power so it can stay connected.
Relay something like this:
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/american-zettler-inc-/az2280-1c-120af/70132401/?gclid=CjwKCAjwg-DpBRBbEiwAEV1_-MloyIk1ru02I55Ze3wXEqeJsNOlPPfnUZ7GJGf4DqPU0pD6wDU4-RoCbYUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
or

One problem may be the three way nature of the zwave relay input. If you switch the state of the relay from ST then when the Hayward went on the relay would go off. However, if you don’t normally change it from ST it is simple mater to fix it if it got out sync.

A little research and on the association is due. If you have questions ask. Zwave Tweaker is a custom device type intended for temporary use with zwave devices. It can be used to configure associations between devices.

#11

Ok thanks. I’m going to have to do some digging and figure out how exactly the Hawyard triggers it’s own relay for the lights. It might be a low voltage trigger to the relay. If that’s the case then I could just have that low voltage trigger a Zwave relay, I think.

#12

Couldn’t you just use a dry contact device? That’s a common use case.

#13

Likely could. However, I think Its2loud was looking for a 110v powered device. There may be a 110v powered zwave sensor out there but I can’t think of one. Therefore essentially using a relay as a sensor.

#14

Fibaro universal sensor is intended to be wired in line. It’s covered in the dry contact FAQ. But I believe that one is binary where the mimolite can be set to report in a range.

In addition, many of the battery operated devices can be modified to run off of mains power.

So it all comes down to the details.

#15

Thanks,

I checked the documents for both MIMO and Fibaro and from what I can tell, neither accepts 110 direct as a trigger. I could be wrong.

I do indeed need a 110 trigger as I will not have access to the control of the relay in the Hawyard panel

image
4F9FB65A-87E2-48D5-B9A8-5F6D2F0D820A.png1668×2224 906 KB

So let me ask this.

Based on this drawing, the relay is controlling the load to the lights which makes sense. It’s acting like a general wall switch in that way. Therefore, what if I take something like the [Fibaro Double switch 2](Fibaro FGS-223 ZW5 US Double 2, Z-Wave Plus Relay Switch, Doesn’t Work with HomeKit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZPD441/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_qOCoDb3WR878D) and wire it with the load from from the relay. I could supply separate power to the Fibaro and in theory, when the Hawyard relay trips to supply load, the Fibaro just thinks I’m flipping a wall switch. Does this make sense?

#16

Well from the Hayward document you posted it looks like it is using dry contact relays. There for you can wire directly from the zwave relay/sensor to two posts on the OmniLogic relay. Do not connect the OmniLogic relay to any power source. The zwave relay/sensor will just see it as a switch closing.

Looks like the UNIVERSAL BINARY SENSOR
FGBS-001 would work for you. You would need a 9v to 30v DC power supply. Since thats the case you may be better off modifying a simple window/door contact sensor to run off power and wire the dry contacts to it.

#17

There might be some low voltage I can tap off of the Hawyard.

I’m hoping there is no circuitry in those relays that tells the Hawyard CPU if there is voltage coming in or not and the unit will just switch the relay when given the command for the remote.

So the FGBS-001 will be able to sense whether the relay is open or closed? Interesting.

I may come back with more questions once I figure this all out.

Any suggestions on a door/window sensor that can be wired in?

Thanks for all the help

#18

If you are handy with a soldering iron you can remove the magnetic reed switch from almost any contact sensor and connect a couple of wires.

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