iOS 8 HomeKit at WWDC

same here. I hope they dont ignore a whole population of iPhone users.

It may not matter if SmartThings supports HomeKit or not. One way to look at HomeKit is that it is a UI superstructure with good iOS 8 support, including fairly deep Siri integration. The SmartThings hub will be a “bridge” in HomeKit. Just as developers have already implemented UI superstructures for ST, e.g. ActiON, Home Automation Dashboard, etc., a developer other than SmartThings can do the same thing with HomeKit. If ActiON can scarf up all of your devices into a Dashboard, a similar app could scarf up all of your devices into HomeKit. The cool thing about a HomeKit bridge, is that while the bridge device (ST Hub) handles all of the “dirty work” of running the devices (think Z-Wave and Zigbee), those devices show up in HomeKit in Homes, Rooms, and Accessories. This should be pretty straight forward, and it should happen with or without ST involvement. If ST has a problem with Apple’s terms, one of us as a developer probably would not have the same problem.

I don’t think HomeKit is such a big deal, unless you really need Siri for some reason. I sure don’t walk around my home with my iPhone, just hankering to tell Siri to turn on a light. Interesting issue is that HomeKit only works when the iPhone has connectivity, just like ST only works when the hub has connectivity. It’s fairly obvious that robust HA requires at a minimum a hub like ST’s to function, and HomeKit doesn’t address that need AT ALL. It makes an accommodation for it through it’s bridge support and functionality, but someone else has to provide the hub.

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A…a…a…Apple TV…choo!



This summarizes the whole HomeKit issue really well. I too fail to see what the groundbreaking significance of HimeKit integration is.

HK does not magically solve any problems, it only adds a thin Applesque layer for the user to interact with, but someone else has to do the heavy lifting.

For ST, not to support HK would be a mistake. Just like it would have been a mistake for Apple not to make some noise in HA.

@625alex, I was figuring this would be your next project – ActiON-Kit. :smiley:

I have no personal interest developing for apple devices and doing it for money would not be worth it.

My wife has everything from apple, I’m an Android guy. Even if there was HomeKit integration and Siri, she wouldn’t use it anyway. ActiON Dashboard was designed for her and she is now worming up to HA.

Considering that ST couldn’t sort out device labels on mobile app, I don’t think we should worry about HomeKit.

I’m gonna have to agree with @chuckles on this one. While HomeKit may not be much of anything at this point, I think it’s still worth giving consideration. I for one do not believe that Apple would turn their nose up at the home automation industry, not when it’s worth an estimated 12 billion dollars.n They’d be idiots to not have a stake in the game. And that’s why I think you’ll see HomeKit expand with Apple TV. The introduction of iBeacons, Handoff and Continuity on iOS and Yosemite also help lay the foundation of automating media - we’re not far off from a time when your media is going to follow you from room to room or device to device.

@bravenel, you may not carry your phone with you around the house all the time, but many of us do - especially those who’ve grown up with a mobile device attached at the hip. And while I don’t necessarily want to be asking Siri to turn on my lights all the time, there is clearly a growing interest in voice controlled tasking - look at Ubi or Echo - perfect examples of how voice commands could be integrated into your smart home.

I don’t think HomeKit in its current form is groundbreaking by any means, but I do think Apple is laying the foundation for deeper integration within their own eco-system and that does excite me as I’ve been a long time Apple user.

Thanks for sharing your insight @bravenel!

Amen. Apple already has all pieces of the smart home puzzle ready to go: the cloud component (iCloud), the mobile component (iPhone/iPad), the home-resident component (A-TV), the wearable component (A-Watch) and the software framework to tie it all together (HomeKit + Siri). The remaining components (sensors and actuators) will be supplied buy the MFi partners and Apple does not need to bother with them. They are just that - accessories. The next gen A-TV is rumored to have a microphone and a camera or some kind of gesture recognition because no one wants to use their phone to turn the lights on and off while at home.

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That sums it up perfectly. I didn’t even think to include the upcoming Apple Watch. And with iPhone finally including NFC (although locked in its current state) that opens up further doors. What excites me most is the possibility of really getting a fix on indoor locations, specifically as it pertains to rooms and occupancy. For truly personalized and nimble automation of everything, that needs to be the next step. Current motion sensors, even the PIR ones just don’t have the capability of reliable occupancy sensing. However, a wearable with bluetooth and a few iBeacons (hey, ST, how about sensors with iBeacons integrated?) could easily track occupancy and location.

And that brings me to what I mentioned below - media that actually follows you. I believe Apple just applied for a patent for a reverse airplay type of feature, meaning that content from your Apple TV could be beamed to a mobile device. Great example - you get up from a group movie setting and instead of pausing the movie and making everyone wait, the movie simply continues alongside on a mobile device or shifts to another screen entirely depending on your location. That’s only going to be possible with localized check-ins, and iBeacons was made for that.

The “Hey, Siri” feature also integrates well with HA if you consider it in the same manner of something like Ubi or Echo. It stinks the device has to be plugged in (points to you OK, Google) but if the upcoming Apple TV refresh does contain a microphone, you’ve got your centralized hub for voice control right there.

It’s an exciting time. Can’t wait for CES!


Something which is always overlooked is the fact that Apple acquired the company PrimeSence which invented the technology used in the Kinect.

From Wikipedia: “Described by Microsoft personnel as the primary innovation of Kinect,[26][27][28] the software technology enables advanced gesture recognition, facial recognition and voice recognition.[29] According to information supplied to retailers, Kinect is capable of simultaneously tracking up to six people, including two active players for motion analysis with a feature extraction of 20 joints per player”

So if Apple is working on sensors with facial recognition, then having our phone or any other wearable wouldn’t be necessary for a home automation system that can truly be tailored to each individual in a home.

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@tonyfalcone - great addition. Totally forgot about that. Opens up an entirely different possibility for occupancy tracking and presence. When you think about the Kinect, and the fact that the original xbox 360 version can be had for $99, that’s really only about 2 times the cost of something like the new Fibraro motion sensor. Apple’s recently reviewed documents about their iBeacon hardware was also an interesting look into what they’re thinking - I’m just really curious to see if Apple is going to implement any hardware solutions at all (outside of pre-existing tech) for the HA game. So far it seems like HomeKit is more about connecting other people’s stuff. The iBeacon tech makes sense because of their big retail implementation push… what do you think they’ll do with something like Kinect tech? Integration into mobile, laptops? Do think cost would be a factor repositioning it for home automation?

I’m not sure what new hardware Apple will bring to HA, but since they are a hardware and software company, I’m sure they have been working on their own system for a while now. Maybe they will have a sensor that incorporates both iBeacon and PrimeSense technology, which could be great. Then again, maybe they bought PrimeSense to be used in their long rumored Apple Television in the form of gesture control, which I think could be not so great . I do think they missed a great opportunity by not buying Nest. That would have given them a great piece for their system, plus they’d have Tony Fadell back in their fold. That plus DropCam and Waze would have been nice too, instead of Beats lol.

What I am sure of though is that whatever they bring to market won’t be a rushed, half baked effort like some of the offerings out there right now (by some large companies no less).

Actually, here’s a new camera from Netatmo that has facial recognition which looks pretty interesting:

I guess that’s the last thing Tony wanted. :smile:

Apple completely missed the boat on Nest, even if there were issues between Fadell and Ive. I would have taken Nest over Beats any day. I kind of feel like Apple needs to take the goggles off when it comes to music, because I don’t think they are going to win the streaming battle, even with Dre and Iovine helping out. I understand the reliance and importance of media deals, and hopefully Iovine will be able to help right the ship when it comes to Film & TV. Today’s announcement of new partners only solidifies Nest’s position as a leader and innovator in the HA industry. After the treatment I received as a former Revolv owner, I really don’t want anything to do with Nest anymore, but I feel that’s probably unavoidable.

Also - Works with Nest? “Nest-able” would have been ten times better. Sorry, Apple fanboy for life here.

First HomeKit-enabled device shown at CES:

What ever happened to this? Seems like asking about Nest now is the best way to trigger complete silence from SmartThings. Should I (we) just give up hope and quit beating this dead(?) horse?

Yeah I was disappointed that Samsung went on and on about their commitment to have their home automation open and supporting all the standards, but they didn’t even mention the one that Apple cooked up which will probably be 50% + of the market due to their marketing power and user base.

I’m most excited about Insteon’s announcement of a new hub that will support Homekit, I have dozens of Insteon devices so I can at least get all those into the device database and add new Homekit certified devices as they come along.

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Why would you expect Samsung to give any lip service to a strong competitor in a huge publicity opportunity? Especially when their primary message was about open standards, as you say; and Homekit is not really an open standard in the way ST and Samsung talked about. You can’t take a Homekit compliant device to another ecosystem and tap into it like you can Zwave or Zigbee.

I’m fully iOS/iDevices in my home, and I expect them to integrate with Homekit (especially based on the linked post below); but I wouldn’t expect them to incorporate that into a big Samsung moment given their history. I understand the skepticism, and I share it; but this was not the time or place to make any such commitment. It’s also very early for Homekit as there’s nothing out there yet.

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Based on some recent developments, it looks highly unlikely that SmartThings can qualify to be a HomeKit device.

According to 9to5mac sources, “Apple will allow its upcoming Siri-controlled HomeKit platform to work with certain existing, non-HomeKit home automation products, including ones using competing protocols such as ZigBee or Z-Wave, but there are many limitations.”

However, one of the more notable limitations is that “Apple will not allow home automation accessories connecting over Wi-Fi, such as a Nest Thermostat, to be bridged. Those will have to go the HomeKit protocol route and become licensed MFi products.”

So, all of SmartThings connections to WiFi devices pretty much ensures that SmartThings won’t be certified unless Apple changes its mind.

Any thoughts?

Here’s the article: