Hub Firmware Beta 25.26

I believe The GE Zwave plus Devices use association groups for their double tap.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/2105

The Homeseer uses central scene:

COMPATIBILITY (with Non-HomeSeer systems)
The special features of this dimmer are supported using a number of different Z-Wave technologies. HomeSeer systems are de- signed to support these technologies and will provide the most seamless operation of these features. However, other systems may also provide satisfactory results depending on the level of support they provide for these same technologies. If you’re using a non- HomeSeer system, use the information below and consult with your system manufacturer to determine the level of compatibility.
.
Multi-tap Triggers: This feature uses the Z-Wave CENTRAL SCENE command class. If the system supports this command class AND
utilizes a general interrogation process for inclusion, this feature should work. However, if the system employs an inclusion process based on the Z-Wave product ID, then specific product support would need to be implemented.
.
Instant Status: This feature is supported using a Z-Wave MULTILEVEL REPORT and the CENTRAL SCENE command class. All Z-Wave certified systems should support the MULTILEVEL REPORT feature.

Note that the only association group they are supporting is the lifeline group:

As far as zwave switches reporting status when physically changed at the wall, they definitely used to: that’s how the original double tap logic worked. It utilized the difference between “is physical“ and “is digital.“ lots of conversations from 2013 through 2015 on this.

That said, there were several platform changes made after the discovery that when “is physical“ was sent through some repeaters it got changed to “is digital“ which threw everything off. Plus lag introduced by the cloud messed up the double taps anyway. So maybe they started ignoring the event reports from the switches.

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Yes and yes, but I think homeseer does both lifeline and central scene.

If it only did central scene, (which SmartThings does not use with built-in) then there would NOT be instant status as far as SmartThings hub is concerned.

For Ge zwave plus, sure association for double tap, but the command that is sent for double tap is interpreted by SmartThings is a full on to full brightness which is not what the actual switch does. The actual switch does NOT turn on with a double tap.

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Sorry, to be clear, all zwave plus dimmer switches should be using the lifeline group to report dim level , no matter what other methods they also use.

I was talking about how they implement double tap, not event change.

@JDRoberts

Yes and yes but…

As far as I could tell from testing, when double tap was supported, it only worked reliably with on/off switches and NOT dimmers.

The reason I think goes back to active polling. When a switch is tapped, SmartThings can poll and get the status, on.

When a dimmer is tapped, there is a lag as it ramps up or down, which means the polling may get an intermediate value.

The hub has to poll a dimmer multiple times to get the final ramp/dimmer value. The switch only needs one poll.

@JDRoberts
I think we are saying the same thing for multi-tap.

Homeseer uses central scene

and the Ge zwave plus adds to the, I forget whether it was setlevel or basicSet, but it was the value of 255 in the dim command which SmartThings interprets as full on brightness instead of double tap.

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This would require an update not just to the DTH but also to the platform since there is no such event as “double tap” currently. Or It could be reported as two events in the DTH and then the SmartApp would need to search and handle those events accordingly. Or if ST decides to introduce new capabilities like double tap or triple tap etc new SmartApps would be required to process those capabilities.

Sorry, but I’m confused about what you’re saying here.

There are zwave manufacturers who are currently offering switches that support double tap, triple tap, etc. And they do work with SmartThings now. :sunglasses:

Basic Concept: Tap patterns are converted by custom DTHs to button pressed events

In all cases, the different tap codes are presented as different buttons being pressed, like a regular button controller, and that’s how You can use them with smartlighting or webcore or a smartapp. The DTH does the heavy lifting of changing the information received from the device into a button number and then telling smartthings that that particular button was “pressed.” Like a double tap on the top of the rocker might be presented as button three, and a double tap on the bottom of the rocker be presented as button four.

There are no lag issues because it’s the device itself that captures the initial Pattern before anything is sent to the hub.

There are two different ways that this is being done.

Method 1: Central Scene Commands

The homeseer switches do it with the central scene command. The device captures the tap pattern and then send a scene number to the hub. The DTH gets the scene number and converts that to a button controller Event like “button four pressed.”

Method 2: Association Groups

The GE switches do it with association groups. Again, the device captures the tap pattern, but then uses association groups to send out a basic message. The hub will receive it if it is in the correct association group and again, the DTH converts it to a button press event.

There are custom DTHs already in the forum for these devices if you want to see exactly how it works.

There’s no need for the platform to add anything to process the information from these two methods. Unless you want to do it without the custom DTHs. :sunglasses:

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Yes,yes, we need built-in support because otherwise these things do not run local!!

Also, there is a bug if the switch is GE.

I have new switches but cannot use this extended functionality as I would like things to run local as much as possible.

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Correct that’s what I was saying. If the stock DTH needs to support double/triple taps it would need to be modified and then you would need apps to process it. For that to happen in a standardized manner, ST would need to introduce new capabilities or a standard for processing it for general use. It can always be done in a custom manner.

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Well, if there was a new built-in dth that handles let’s say double tap, but called it button 2 press, then Apps could use. If instead they decide to create a new event called “double tap” then apps would have to be written to understand that.

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This morning I tried to connect a Aeon Labs Multisensor 6 (it will be my second one) to the hub and from what I can tell in my hub logs it is connecting to my hub however it doesn’t appear to be showing up on my device lists.

I’m not sure if it is related to the Beta or not but figured since this is the firmware running that it could be causing my problems.

Any thoughts.

If you’re using a custom DTH, republish it.

While I had a Custom DTH installed I haven’t been using it.

Having said that I removed the DTH from my IDE re-installed it and everything it working great.

Thanks for the help.

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After many attempts, resetting, excluding, including and trying other devices handlers, still are my fibaro motions sensor and my Schlage door lock offline. If I include these using Homeseer or Levition, the before mentioned devices works fine. Is there a possibility that factory reset of the Smartthings Hub leave traces of previous devices causing connectivity issues? Is so strange that all devices included after I had to reset my hub all received node id’s greater than 40 while I had about 40 devices before. Ho has the same issues after resetting the hub just after the beta 25.26 firmware update?

Have you removed any custom device handlers in the web ide?

I’m investigating your issues.

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I managed to get your lock back online. Somehow a parameter in your Z-Wave module’s persistent memory got set to an invalid value. I’m still trying to track down the root cause, but I’ve created an internal ticket to help us track this and resolve it so that nobody will have to deal with it in the future. Did you by any chance put your hub in Z-Wave learn mode at some point?

I couldn’t really tell much from the logs regarding your motion sensor, because they did’t go back far enough. I might be able to find out more if you exclude the device and add it again and then let me know so that I can pull the logs.

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Hi @cbaumler, this may or may not be related to the beta, or now the public release of this version, but I opened a support ticket regarding my hub going through disconnect/active events repeatedly. It started a couple days ago with 2 hour intervals between these soft restarts, then it increased to every 1.5 hours, and now it’s every hour. For your reference, it’s ticket #719090.

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Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ll make sure someone is looking into it.

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