How to associate 2 devices (Fibaro parameter discussion starts post #20)

I’ve just realised something which I may try tomorrow. When I added my Fibaro devices to my SmartThings Hub, I did so just using ‘scan nearby’ without indications of what I was adding. It then defaulted the Dimmer to a completely different device and I had to manually change the Device Handler to the natively supported Fibaro Dimmer 2 ZW5.

Am wondering if I had used the native add Switches and Dimmers and selected Fibaro and then Dimmer 2 under supported devices, whether I’d have had better success.

Under the way I did it, once I switched to the native Fibaro Dimmer 2 ZW5 DTH, I had to alter a setting to switch type 3-way, despite having momentary switches, just to get my switch to work with the light. Am now wondering whether my problems were right at the inclusion point.

I will experiment and report back. What a mission!

—— Update ——-

No luck. I excluded the Light (Fibaro Dimmer 2) and then included it using the native Fibaro Dimmer 2 ‘add device’ functionality.

Despite specifically indicating that I was adding a Fibaro Dimmer 2, once SmartThings detected it, it said it found a Fibaro FGR-222 which a Roller Shutter 2.

And then despite changing the DTH to the native SmartThings Fibaro Dimmer 2 DTH, it still made me change the switch the ‘Function of 3-way switch’ to enabled (as well as setting the switch type to ‘momentary’) in order to be able to use the physical switch. Without doing that I get no response from the physical switch.

And then associations continue not to work. My gut feel/ intuition says that it has something to do with SmartThings not recognising that the physical switch has been pressed or something.

Tearing my hair out. Might have to switch to a Fibaro Home Centre 3 away from SmartThings, which I really never thought I’d have to do a few years ago when I was really happy with SmartThings.

Any help really appreciated!

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I’m sorry, I don’t have any other suggestions than to go to one of the threads where people are talking about that specific device and find out what they are doing. As I mentioned, there have been a lot of concerns expressed about fibaro devices since the classic app was retired, but I don’t use them myself and I don’t know all the details.

Try the following thread:

Fibaro 223: Second switch "checking"

Thanks JD, I certainly looked around the community before I asked my question and couldn’t find anything. Looks like while Fibaro was a fantastic combo with SmartThings in the past, this is no longer the case, and we appear to have lost our enthusiastic and knowledgeable Fibaro users (Robin W being one, but there were others). I don’t suppose you know if Robin is active on an alternative platform or something eg Hubitat? My guess is I am going to have to move platform.

I’ll try contacting Fibaro themselves, but by the sound of things, they are not that interested in making their hardware work well with SmartThings.

So much for Matter etc! Why do I feel it won’t ride to the rescue either…?

Matter could solve a lot of things, but right now Zwave is not signed up to participate in matter (matter devices have to have an IP address, and Z wave devices don’t in most installations). So matter wouldn’t solve this for quite a while, and it might only for new models.

Fibaro, like some other manufacturers, have said they meet the third-party Z wave standard. They are not going to invest their resources in anything which is platform specific beyond that.

I know there are a lot of smartthings customers who are angry about that, but I think it’s a reasonable business decision. It’s smartthings which is adding requirements beyond the Z wave standard, so I understand some device manufacturers seeing smartthings as the unreasonable one.

As far as Robin, I’m not sure whether he moved to Hubitat or not, you could ask in their forums.

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Thanks. Out of interest I have dabbled with programming in the past. Do you know if I invested time over a few months, whether the ability should be there to program my own DTH for SmartThings, or is there possibly something inherently wrong with the new App/ Hub that may make efforts from even the experts futile?

Technically DTHs themselves Will no longer be supported in a few months. Instead, Z wave devices will use “edge drivers“ which is a whole different platform using a different language (Lua instead of Groovy). The good news is that then everything will run locally. The bad news is that everything is still in beta and right now there isn’t yet full support for multi endpoint devices. For example, you can’t use them with the voice assistants, they only see the main component, not the individual ones.

If you’re interested in that, check out the following:

And you can find links to the edge drivers that have already been written by community members in the community – created wiki,

https://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Quick_Browse_the_Community-Created_SmartApps_Forum_Section#Quick_Browse_Links_for_Edge_Drivers

Curious on your thoughts. The zwave tweaker you shared got me thinking that when it comes to associations where the hub is not involved, you’d think you really could just use something (ie the tweaker) that allows you to configure the Parameters of the Fibaro Dimmer 2 modules, and it really should work, as there is no involvement from the Hub once you’ve set the module with the associated device.

So am thinking I’m just not setting the Parameters correctly, as I can’t really see how the hub is involved.

Does this ring true with you, or can you see a reason why SmartThings should be getting in the way of setting the parameters correctly and allowing Associations just to work?

No idea, the smartthings architecture is unique and strange.

But the first thing I would do is use the Tweaker, set the associations, then check the tweaker again and see if it says the device has the associations you set.

If it does, that should work even if the hub is unplugged, as long as you got the device IDs right.

I can see in the screenshot you posted that the Family Bathroom device joined with security level ZWAVE_S0_LEGACY. What security level did the Family Bathroom Fan join at? If it’s a Double Switch 2 as shown in the other screenshot, it might be joined at S2.

I haven’t messed around with association much, but today I’ve been writing drivers for a couple of GE switches and have been excluding/including them. Association worked when both were S0. Now the newer one is rejoined at S2, which the older doesn’t support, and so association isn’t working. This behavior matches what I’m interpreting the zwave spec to require for devices with differing security levels, so if you’re in the same situation then that could be what you’re up against.

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Very important point, thanks!

Although zwave is generally backwards compatible, the security features of the new S2 protocol mean that only a device at the same S2 level can be associated to an S2 device.

( since I use a screenreader, I can’t read the screenshots. My apologies for not thinking to ask about this.)

Thanks both but the Family Bathroom Fan joined at the same Security Level. ZWAVE_S0_LEGACY.

I’ve copied the screenshot for the Fan below.

There does appear to be something weird with the setting of parameters. When I read the settings in the IDE for Family Bathroom I get two different readings for the same parameter.

Parameter 26 says 0, whereas the read back of 3-way switch at the bottom says 1. I have a gut feeling this has something to do with the fact that the Fibaro Dimmer 2 seems to be default joining to the SmartThings Hub as a Roller Shutter, which probably defaults to a Roller Blind type switch? Anyway both screenshots below. How do I completely erase parameter settings and start from a blank sheet… so I need to avoid it defaulting then driver when it first joins… can I force what driver it will use on joining?

David.


Don’t read too much into what you see in the preferences section in the IDE. Those are the values that you entered into the settings screen of the app, but may not represent what the device is actually set to. Same with the leftover preference variables from the initial pairing - it’s messy but it’s not a problem.

If you want to see the current parameter settings on the device, set the device to use the Tweaker DTH, open live logging to the device, and then run the parameter scan in Tweaker settings. There are a few parameters on the Fibaro Dimmer 2 that impact association that you should check - 24, 25 and 27. 24 and 25 should both be set to the default of 0. I think 27 might be fine at the default of 15, but it controls security of the outbound commands so I would try changing it to 0 to see if that makes a difference.

Another thing to try… The Fibaro Double Switch 2 has 2 endpoints. You might need to specify the endpoint in the association, so try ‘1C:1,1C:2’ in your association to hit both endpoints (or just use the applicable one if you know whether your fan is connected to S1 or S2). I’m assuming the fan is currently node 1C based on that last screenshot.

Finally, if you just want to confirm that the Dimmer 2 is sending out commands to associated nodes like it’s supposed to, you can try putting the hub (node ID should be 1) in the association group, then toggle the switch. If the device is still using the Tweaker DTH, you should get a line in logs that says ’ zwaveEvent(): No handler for command: BasicSet(value: 255)'. If you use the dimmer association group you’ll see a SwitchMultilevelSet command instead. Important thing is you’re looking for a Set command, which is the instruction to other devices. The Report commands are the status report to the hub, and will show regardless of association.

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Thanks. I think this may end up baring fruit, but I’m not quite working out this live logging and scan parameters thing. I mean the first time I did it, I got back 1-20 parameters in live logging (it is for my dining room, which is precisely the same as my Family Bathroom). See the screenshots.

Why do I only get 1-20 back. I tried to set the parameter range after that. But after my first scan I then only got a summary message that it was performing the scan, but no feedback on each parameter. Not sure why. And can’t seem to see parameters above 20.

Will keep playing but if you have guidance on how this works, appreciated!



Tweaker stores in memory any parameters it already retrieved, and only fetches new ones it hasn’t already grabbed. So any repeats wouldn’t be shown. You can flip the ‘Perform Clean Up’ option at the top on and off to clear out that memory. Otherwise, the default is to grab params 0 through 20 unless you specify a range.

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Thanks. Am definitely getting there. I noticed that parameter 29 was set to 1, flipping my S1 and S2, which likely plays havoc with an association on Group2. It was also giving me problems with my switch not working and having to set Parameter 26 to 1 (3-way) just to get the physical switch working. Now when I force parameter 29 to 0. The switch works fine without any hack. But association is still not quite working.

Would you mind taking a look at my Association Group scan copied. I have tried 1C and 1C:1 but it’s not triggering… but I think we can get there!

Thanks so much for your help so far.

Just one thing. In this case my Dining Room is trying to form an association with my TV Room. Both are Fibaro Dimmer 2. My TV Room is id 1C, so I’m just simply putting Association Group 2 on the Dining Room, to 1C (using the tweaker). Should that work?

Finally got it to work! Parameter 27 also needs to be 15, not 0. Ie Secure.

Can’t for the life of me work out why the default is setting Parameter 29 to 1, messing up everything!

Hope this thread helps someone else…

—- update —-

@philh30 and @JDRoberts thanks so much for your help! Really thought I’d need to get a new hub.

Now the main sticking point is the general inability of the status of the Fibaro Dimmer 2s to update the Hub with their current status. Ie SmartThings App report off when the light is on, and vice versa. And doesn’t correct itself at any point in time.

I am using the native Fibaro Dimmer 2 driver, so you’d have thought it would work. Have seen quite a few threads indicating similar problems, but thought I’d bounce off you to see if there is anything I can try?

thanks again

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Glad you got it working!

I would also assume that if you’re using that ‘Fibaro Dimmer 2 ZW5’ DTH then it would be set up to handle device updates as best as possible. You’re sure your devices aren’t still set to use Tweaker, right? And since you were playing with associations - does association group 1 still have node 1 in it?

First thing I would try is a z-wave network repair. You can run it through the IDE (hub tab) or the hub device in the app.

If the problem persists after the repair, start figuring out whether there’s rhyme or reason to when the status does/doesn’t update. Is it only certain devices? Only when you operate the physical switch? Or is it all of that model all the time? If it’s just one/some of the devices, I would start looking at parameter settings, or maybe do an exclude/include if I got desperate. If it seems random, I would start wondering whether the z-wave mesh is strong enough. If it’s all of them and there’s a pattern, then either they all have an incorrect parameter or there’s an issue with the DTH.

Another step is to watch logs while toggling the device to see what kind of z-wave commands (if any) the hub is getting from the device to indicate status. Then you can look through the DTH code to see whether that command is being handled properly. If there’s a logging option in the DTH, make sure it’s turned on and/or set to give you the most info (usually trace).

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This requires that the hub ID be included in association group 1 for each device. This happens automatically when you join a device to the network, but it is possible to delete it, so if you did that, you need to put it back.

Also, again I can’t look at your screenshots, so I don’t know all the details, but for devices manufactured after 2019, the hub should be the only thing in association group one. Then you have to look at the specs for the device to see what goes in the other association groups. It’s quite common for one association group to be used for on/off devices and a different group to be used for dimming. And a third to be used for tamper alerts. If you don’t get the IDs in the exact right groups then things won’t work. :thinking:

Ok, this is Interesting, and could explain why people have been having problems with Fibaro devices when they didn’t have the association set up right. :thinking:

Fibaro tends to do things within spec but just a little differently than everybody else.

In this case, they are using different association groups for the different endpoints.

( again, the first rule of home automation: “the model number matters.“)

Here is the Fibaro Dimmer 2. Note that Association group one is, as is required by the spec, the lifeline group. It should only have the hub in it. It only allows for one target device, so if you put anything else in that list, you will lose the hub.

Association group 2 is for on/off (basic) triggered by the first endpoint.

Association group 3 is for dimming (multilevel) triggered by the first endpoint.

Association group 4 is for on/off (basic) triggered by the second endpoint.

Association group 5 is for dimming (multilevel) triggered by the second endpoint.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/3549/assoc?noFilename=True

What’s unusual is that they are calling the endpoints “keys“ even though they called them “switches“ in the user manuals and they are not using the endpoint field. So switch one is “key no. one“ and they are using endpoint zero for all commands sent by association even though this device does have two endpoints. They are not out of spec, and there are other manufacturers using the same method, but it can get a little confusing.