Load is in the other box so use the black wire of the same Romex (you mentioned white and red) and hook that up to load. Then in your other box white to neutral, red to traveler, and then bundle that black wire with the black wire I asked you to disconnect.
You can definitely just replace the switches that control the chandelier even if other switches are on the same circuit (controlled by the same breaker).
In the case where you’re replacing all the switches in a multi-gang box and they are all on one circuit (i.e. controlled by a single breaker), it’s possible to simplify the wiring. Smart switches are generally larger than dumb switches so space in the box might become an issue. Worry about that when you get there.
To clarify, your chandelier is on a 4-way (1 light, 3 switches), correct?
@ritchierich, I followed your instructions, and as usual, everything is working perfect! I didn’t know how to use the “wago” wire nuts, but they were pretty simple, you just stick the wire in :). I wanted to tell you how grateful I am for all of your help. I’m happy to send you paypal/venmo for your help if I can, just pm me your email.
Awesome glad you got this switch working as well! Re payment, no worries at all, happy to help. I love puzzles so this type of thing is fun to me.
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Hey if you’re so inclined, looking at the pictures for dummy switch #1, I’m still very confused, because in the picture above, the furthest romex to the right there was a red that went to traveller on the old switch, a black that was nutted (is that a word?) to the white in the same romex that was painted black, and a ground. Then the romex with the sheathing had a red that went to the black on the old switch, a black that went to a bundle of blacks, a white that went to a bundle of travellers and a ground.
What is going on here?
Mainly, why are there two romexes servicing one switch where one romex really only goes the traveller, and has a black tied to a white that was painted black? And are there any neutrals in this romex or only the romex with characters on the sheathing? I’m not really understanding what’s going on.
Remember you originally said:
That was your load to fixture correct? If so that white (painted black) and other black wire are also your loads.
Given some wires are using nuts and others wagos it is as if additional wires and electricians used different techniques for these lights. Do you know if additional light fixtures were added to this switch ever? That could also be why it is setup this way as when you change things sometimes you have extra wires you don’t need. Without getting a toner and tracing them really hard to say.
I believe so I think at a certain point, they added recessed lighting. There are a million neutrals wagoed together at the left of the picture (not shown), and no more space in the nut. Can I just pull the neutrals from the 2 romexes for the neutral pigtail to the addon switch?
Only if those switches are on the same circuit breaker. Are they?
Trying to tackle this one circuit. I have 3 switches. Switch A has a light (left) and fan control (right) and Switch B controls the same light as the Switch A light. I’m attempting to install zwave GE switches, one being an addon for the traveler. I’ve been told this is a possibly a line-switch-load-switch-2 configuration, but I’m extremely confused because the fan/light fixture only has on 3-wire ROMEX going into it. Thoughts?
All photos
Sorry for imgur link, I could only post one picture and this made the most sense.
I appreciate any help, thank you!
Your “switch a” actually has both line and load in it so its not this configuration but no worries we will get you sorted. Can post further written instructions in a bit but hopefully this will get you started:
Switch A Left Light Switch:
- Disconnect current red wire I marked as Load to light that is hooked up to the black screw terminal and connect to the load on your master switch
- Add the white pigtail that comes with the switch and include in the neutral bundle and add to one of the neutral terminals on the switch. Disconnect the blackish/white wire currently connected to the switch that I mark as neutral and insert into the other neutral terminal on the master switch. This will send neutral to your Aux switch
- The other red wire will be hooked up to traveler on the master switch
- Disconnect the highlighted wire from the black line bundle and put a cap on it as you no longer need it.
- Add a short black wire to the line to breaker bundle and connect to the line terminal on your master switch.
Switch A Right Fan Switch
- Connect bottom black wire that goes into wire bundle that I marked as line to breaker to Line on the fan switch
- Connect the other black wire on the top of the switch to load on the fan switch
- Add the white pigtail to the white bundle of wires to neutral
Switch B:
- Connect the red to travler
- Connect the highlighted blackish/white wire to neutral
- Disconnect the other black wire and put a wire nut on it as you no longer need it.
This is crazy you are the third person recently I have helped with black paint on white wires. Definitely not common but common recently. @Bry
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Absolutely amazing. This was it. How you were able to deduce all of that from my crappy pictures is beyond impressive. If I could buy you a beer or 12 I would. Thank you again kind sir.
Is there a wiring diagram that is standard for this type of setup? I have a feeling in this new house there are going to be more of these and I just want something to learn from.
Again, thank you. This was perfect and easy to follow for a simpleton like me.
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With three ways it’s pretty typical to have line and load in the same box. If your home is new, code now requires neutral in switch boxes with load to fixture so you should be good following the above with other switch boxes, especially when you see a single Romex wire like Switch B where all three are hooked up to the switch.
But as I have said many times in this thread, the key to 3 ways is paying attention to the black screw terminal on the old dumb switches before you disconnect anything. Then trace those wires to see what Romex they go to versus the other wires connected to the switch. Never disconnect anything without pictures and inspecting this.
This is all I did with your pictures, noticed black screw on left switch was red wire going to upper right and right switch black screw was black wire also going to upper right and white wire going to neutral. Seeing that I knew it was load to your fan.
Need some help with wiring my GE 3-way switch before I pull my hair out. My setup appears to be a 3-way for multiple lights. I have no problems with the dumb switch but as soon as I hook-up the smart main and add-on only the main will turn the light on or off. The add-on fails to do either. I’ve tried another add-on switch without any changes. I’ve also tried changing the travelers in the event something was switched somehow en-route to the other box. I’ve attached some pics of the original setup and the smart switch. In case anyone asks, the main switch line has already been tested and is at 120v. The add-on shows 90-100v on the red traveler (and also shows 120v at the black traveler only when the main is turned off). Any help is greatly appreciated
That does not sound right. On the smart switch, where is the black traveler wire connected?
Paging doctor @ritchierich.
Attached some new pics. Attached at the load terminal on main; with the load and wire nut on the add-on.
Ok. Thought it must be. But I’m surprised the black traveler is energized when the smart switch is off rather than when it’s on.
The wiring looks right to me. On the add-on switch, you might double-check that the white pigtail is making good contact with the neutral bundle.
Otherwise wait for @ritchierich to chime in. He’s a wiring wizard.
One other thing to try would be to swap the function of the red and black traveler wires. This would determine if the red traveler wire is ok.
On the smart switch side, hook the red traveler to the load terminal and the black traveler to the traveler terminal.
On the add-on switch side, hook the black traveler to the travel terminal, connect the red traveler to the black load wire.
If there’s a break or problem with the red traveler, the smart switch won’t be able to operate the fixtures.
(Grasping at straws)
Thanks. Tried rechecking the neutral and swapping the travelers already without any luck. This setup has worked at other homes, but doesn’t for some reason at the new place I just moved to.
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Sorry, but isn’t this likely to burn out the switch? The wiring for smart switches and their accessories is somewhat different from the wiring for dumb switches. You can’t just replace them one for one. This is why there’s a warning label on the Master switch not to insert a wire carrying 120 V into the traveler connection.
A lot of dumb three ways are set up like a figure 8 loop if the figure 8 was turned on its side, and the circuit gets broken or completed as the different switches are toggled. You can’t do that with a smart switch and its accessory because you need each switch to always have some power so that the radio will work. So the line between the two, the new traveler line, is not carrying a full circuit load.
If you just randomly start reconnecting wires, you’re likely to fry the switch if you connect a hot line between the two traveler points.
You can see the distinction in the manual for the accessory switch:
You can also see at that same link from the wiring diagrams for a four-way that if the old dumb switch had two travelers, in the wiring for the new smart switch you will join the travelers to each other before they are connected to the Master. And again, it’s different from the way dumb switches are wired in a four way.
Or did I misunderstand? wiring is definitely not my area of expertise. 
No, not doing as I described. The wire used as a traveler in the GE 3-way set up doesn’t carry 120v. The one connected to load, of course, will. By swapping them at both ends, you’re just changing what each of the two wires does.
This is a very garden-variety line-in-one-box, load-in-the-other-box 3-way setup so far as I can tell.
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