One thing @625alex said hit me… we need categorization of smartapps (or tagging or whatever). We need a way to find them. I have the worst time trying to guess what category in the interface to look in, then if I don’t find it, searching the morass of posts for similar sounding, but not quite right things. I’ve then made my own, and then found out they existed already later. It’s almost made me read the community fervently to make sure I know where they all are…
I do think a fair amount of apps (more basic ones) are one simple rulebuilder app/functionality away from being necessary. Most apps are collections of rules based around devices.
Now devices… those are very valuable in my opinion, to the platform and users. The reason I’m here is because of my Honeywell Thermostats. Totally a community device that brought me here like many others I would think. Every manufacturer thinks they need to make their own hub and lock you in, I so far have liked the inclusiveness here, but carefully watch for signs of locking down. I get out when the walls start going up in the garden.
Totally agree. I am willing to work on a community directory of apps even if the oAuth method of install is closed.
It will give greater visibility to community developers
It will either prove or disprove the viability of a marketplace
It will give the users better access to the developer of the SmartApp
Easier discovery for end users
I don’t see SmartApp development becoming a full time job anytime soon, but I do think some developers could make it a nice side business. It will all depend on what the user base decides is a fair price for a SmartApp.
I agree but there is no current mechanism to self publish a device type and no way to keep the code secure. Developers would have to release their source code after payment and enforcing the license would be next to impossible.
tgauchat
(ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)
43
This is where SmartThings has the simplest opportunity to assist Developers, perhaps. They have incentive to grow the “compatibility scope” of the system by encouraging Device Types for obscure Devices. Whether or not they decide to fetch additional income from their Customers for such Devices is another story.
But SmartThings can keep a running count of installations of each Device Type (probably even detect unused Devices), and pay the developer appropriate royalties.
Generally, though, I gotta say that all attempts to bypass SmartThings in running a SmartApp / Device Marketplace are facing considerable complications that are only resolvable with a close partnership with ST. While ST may not run the marketplace or provide the most optimal additional tools and APIs, they may be convinced to assist. A Proof of Concept here can’t hurt, if you have the time to build it, as that will make partnership conversations with SmartThings easier.
How about a new website that is paywalled off. Meaning either you have to pay to become a member(monthly fee, like $9.99) or have someone sponsor you.
The more sponsors you get, the more revenue you keep. For example:
Someone signs up, the site gets 9.99 / month. That goes to cover costs, etc. first then a revenue split amoungst the developers.
If someone sponsors you, that money is split 70/30 to you and the site. 70 goes into your account, 30 goes to the store. Again, to cover costs and then rev share across all developers (including you)
Think of it as a developer co-op.
Costs you $120 / year if no revenue which will cover costs of hosting, software, etc.
Each developer gets a listing of apps, helpdesk, bugtracker, etc.
End users can buy access to the public side, by much cheaper models, pay once for a code (set by developer) and rev share 70/30 to developer/site.
Or end users can subscribe / sponsor a specific developer(s) and that gives them unlimited access to that developer resources. (Prices set by site and/or developer)
As said before, the money will not be in the sale of code one off, but in the support and sponsorship of people who want things before or in lieu of what SmartThings will offer.
Following this thread with some interest as a potential consumer. I agree, third party marketplace would be a good idea if for nothing else that it provides a better way to find custom SmartApps than SmartThings currently provides. I will echo @RBoy’s comments that if I’m “purchasing” a SmartApp/DeviceType I tend to expect more (some) support than for I do for Apps that are donation only.
Also If I get support on a donate only app, I tend to donate more than I would’ve spent on a purchase. With such a small consumer base that might be something you keep in mind. I’m no pricing expert, but it could be that a few people who value the app a lot might be providing more via donations than you would get if they’d purchased at a “mass” market price. Or even better have it a donate item with a portion of profits going to various automation related charitable organizations (elderly care, physical disability, etc…) That’s probably the best way to get the most money out of my wallet .
One thing I haven’t seen discussed much here that would probably be a good addition to your marketplace is a place for freelance services ala RentACoder. As niche as automation currently is, I bet you might find a decent take developing customized apps for specific clients.
Interesting ideas @pstuart. So to make sure I understand, developers are paying $10/month to be a member of the developer site, which goes towards costs of running the site, with any extra split amongst all of the developers. This will encourage developers to bring in more developers, thus lowering their net cost (or possibly increasing their income). It also makes sure that all developers have some skin in the game, raising the bar of developers in the “network”.
Then end users can buy a specific app, at a cost set by the developer, and the revenue is split 70/30 between the dev and the site. Or end users can subscribe to a specific developer to get unlimited access to them at a cost set by the developer, with the revenue also split 70/30. So developers are motivated to bring in customers for themselves as well as for other developers.
Guys, is this done yet? I’d like to buy me some SmartApps!
This thread and others like it are why I love this community so much. There is just so much energy and latent effort just waiting to be tapped here. I think what SmartThings could do a much better job of, is pointing this energy in the directions where it will make the biggest impact.
What are those places where SmartThings will likely never tread, so a community initiative makes great sense? Which areas are likely to be developed internally and according to what timelines. Some of this could be garnered by the community if we just had more transparency in our roadmap, or at the very least, the types of features and ideas we are considering at the moment. To that end, @slagle and I have some ideas we’d like to share soon. Just need to circulate the idea internally a bit more.
I am kinds of scratching my head thinking aren’t we the same people shunning a certain learned and respected member for spinning sort of a developer run store on FB! At least I have guts enough to say that I am willing to go the PayPal way to support a brother but do not support a developer based store. If you don’t want to share with others,then don’t! Is this the same community from couple of months back?
This won’t be a community anymore but a hawking site.
This community is evolving, i feel that developers want to make better apps but find there is very little incentive to do so outside of fulling there own personal HA needs. I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to get payed for the work you do. You also won’t find me bashing another developer for trying to get payed either.
May be you didn’t, buddy! And you guys know me well enough that I mean no disrespect to anybody and respect you all for all the contributions and as a friend. Anyways! It’s a free world!! At least for once I stand with my head bowed! A community is where we help each other at a varying technological level and help each other out. If you like somebody’s work, one should help him with a contribution for the time and effort but please don’t, I beg of you all not to open this for potential “pay me to help you for as silly a thing to turn a light on”.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings about it too. The biggest issue is support. Once you start charging for your work, you’re on hook to support your customers and this can take more time than writing an app. Last thing I want is to answer an endless stream of support emails. I’m pretty sure its impossible to make a living writing and selling SmartApps now or in the nearest future. So why would I want to treat it as a job?
You’ll have no worries there. For this to work well the apps are going to have to be of much better quality than that!
tgauchat
(ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)
58
This has occurred to me as well, in many variations.
Perhaps the appropriate experts aren’t here, but I’m in the process of researching and will share what I learn:
Legal Ramifications
What is the minimum quality / reliability / functionality a piece of software must have in order for you to refuse a refund? i.e., Are there legally mandated implied warranties for software or service, in what jurisdiction, and is there any way to set “terms of sale and use” to disclaim some or all such warranties?
Are there potential liabilities that must also be disclaimed? Is boilerplate sale terms / terms of use language considered sufficient, or is liability insurance recommended? Such liabilities might include Trademark or Copyright infringement, and failure to perform (such as a lock code not working or an alarm failing to activate).
Notwithstanding the above, what is the minimum level of Support that people can or should expect from the developer or his/her designate?
If the Device, App or Service no longer functions due to changes or a ban on the part of SmartThings, is the developer or store responsible for partial or full refunds? What is a reasonable time for a paid SmartApp to be “down” due while awaiting the Developer to publish a fix?
Is the Developer responsible for any upgrades at all (even bug fixes, say, after 90 days)? Can the Developer charge for upgrades and/or ongoing support … i.e., a subscription model.
These are among the big “risks” I’ve implied in a post in this Topic. Other administrative issues are things like income tax and business licenses.etc.. Perhaps research as to what and how small developers of iOS and Android Apps face these types of questions will apply here?
tgauchat
(ActionTiles.com co-founder Terry @ActionTiles; GitHub: @cosmicpuppy)
60
So that’s bad news for the most of us that would just be “developers” (i.e., “contributors”) to the App Store. The App store wouldn’t be a shield for and from liability.
.
