Choosing a thermostat to integrate with Smartthings

[vseven (Allan)]

@Glen_King

There is only one way to save energy/money, and that is to spend less time generating heat (and/or cooling the house). Unless of course you have solar panels doing the job, in which case you’re fine however you go.

I’m thinking that motion sensors that don’t get fooled by pets, combined with dampers in the hvac ducts, are the way to go. The system should be designed such that the flow is unrestricted if 60% of dampers are open, so that if two or three ducts are closed you’re still not stressing things.

I work in HVAC and this is the reason I haven’t bought any vents yet. Restricting air flow through your furnace, especially the majority of furnaces with one or two speed fans and not variable fans/heater cores, will greatly shorted it’s life and lead to premature failure. The only proper way to do this is either have a furnace designed to back off the fan and heat or the cheaper way is to have a bypass damper that allows some of that air to circulate from the supply back to the return if there is too much pressure.

If/when I add a bypass damper I might consider doing the vent thing. Until then it’s just asking for trouble. Its the reason why even Keen says only do 1/2 at most of your vents and leave the rest wide open.

[iridris (Steven)]

@Russell_Seward Check with your utilities to see if they give discounts on smart thermostats. I was just able to buy an Ecobee 4 for $49 after rebates from both my gas and electric companies.

[Russell_Seward]

@tpip

The Nest E is designed as the economy version. It has plastic housing vs the metal ring of the original. It has a more subdued look that will be easy to forget the thermostat is on the wall

This is exactly what I like about the Nest E.

[Russell_Seward]

@iridris

@Russell_Seward Check with your utilities to see if they give discounts on smart thermostats. I was just able to buy an Ecobee 4 for $49 after rebates from both my gas and electric companies.

According to the Ecobee website, my utility does offer a rebate, but based on what I read, you must give the utility access to adjust the temp of your Ecobee during hours of peak energy consumption.
It says they will not adjust more than 12 times a year, no more than 3 or 4 degrees (I can’t remember which), and for no more than 4 hours, and that you can over ride it manually.
Also, I couldn’t find anything on my energy companies website about the program, so I’m not sure it’s still ongoing. I believe it was for this past summer, and Ecobee has a disclaimer that says it could change for 2018.

So I guess it’s 50/50 chance of actually getting the rebate.

[farlicimo]

I have found the Ecobee sensors very useful in my setup. Upstairs the return vent and thermostat are in the hall with 4 bedrooms leading off. When those doors close the rooms tend to heat much faster than the hall. So the heat would kick on and raise the temp of our master bedroom as much as 10 degrees before the thermostat caught up. With 1 additional sensor (as proxy for all the bedrooms) it still rises more than the hall but its much closer. Within 2-4 degrees. The master bedroom also seems to cool much faster than the hall so that’s where the occupancy sensor comes in. When people are not upstairs it just uses the thermostat in the hall which means the bedrooms are kept cooler thus not spending as much. The real benefit comes when I use webCore to watch my other motion sensors and after 15 min of no activity it sets the thermostat down a few degrees whereas I think the Ecobee stock patter is line 2 hours. Been very happy with it.

[Joe_Battaglia (Joe)]

I had a Nest for years and while it worked it didn’t work great, Especially with routines sometimes it would change and sometimes it wouldn’t. I just got an ecobee about 2 weeks ago and wish I would have done that a long time ago. I works flawlessly with my routines now.

[yvesracine]

http://thingsthataresmart.wiki/index.php?title=My_Ecobee_Device#Why_ecobee_vs._other_connected_thermostats.3F

[Russell_Seward]

Thanks you all for the input. Looks like Ecobee is the crowd favorite.

I ordered an Ecobee 4 NIB for $190 off Ebay. Wish me luck!

[kahilzinger (Kirk Hilzinger)]

Just now able to comment but I am very happy with my Ecobee 4.

They updated the code for ESP to make it act to voice like other Echo devices so no more if replying when another Echo device hears your command. You might want to leave it on so as you walk in the hall and you remember something to add to a list or want to turn on or off something, you can. The only thing I wish it would do that it does not is join my other Echo devices for whole house music…and I am sure that will change with a future update…at least I hope it does. My thermostat is in my living room in my house.

It will work with only 4 wires with the module that comes with it (red, white, yellow and green–it derives the blue from the green with the module). I ran new conductors between thermostat location and furnace. I researched my furnace and with the move of one jumper, it went from single-stage to dual stage heating. I see that as a huge cost saver for me in the winter because 1st stage runs 1/2 of the gas and 1/2 the power. It is a gentle heat and less wear on the furnace. The trade is you need two white wires for each stage. I ended up running 12 conductors between furnace and thermostat in case of upgrades in the future.

I ended up using two of those extra wires to use its humidstat instead of the one installed in my cold air return. I did this because the thermostat is on my main level and would be more reactive to me using the shower or boiling water for dinner and kick back humidity in the house to keep it more constant. My furnace has a special +12V terminal for humidifier on the control board and then you run that to the humidifier and then the humidifier to -12V (blue or common).

So, between my furnace and thermostat, I have these wires:

Red: +12VAC
Blue: -12VAC (Common or C)
White 1: Furnace Stage 1
White 2: Furnace Stage 2
Yellow: Air Conditioning
Green: Fan
Extra Wire 1: Humidifier terminal on the control board to ACC1
Extra Wire 2: To humidifer +12VAC terminal from thermostat ACC2

I have a second yellow in case I ever get a dual-stage air conditioner and orange for future devices along with 2 other extra wires.

It is something to think about if you can get the extra wires between the two. The big thing for me was the dual-stage on the furnace.

I do not use the other temp sensors included in the Things. I use the remote sensors for the thermostat for the follow-me/average function. One, my other temp sensors are mostly at my windows because they are open/close sensors on my window. Also, the remote sensors have motion detectors in them to figure out if there are people in the room. I do not recommend the motion sensors for SHM or to use as normal motion sensors to turn on or off lights. I know that does not solve item 1 on your list but it is a work-around and it works well. Plus, these sensors can be used to automatically figure out if someone is home or change the thermostat to away mode.

One function I have noticed with the Ecobee is that it will turn off the air conditioner or furnace a few minutes before turning off the fan. That gives you extra heat or cool without running either just using the leftover heat at the exchanger or the cool in the evaporator. Others might do that. I know my dumb thermostat did not.

I do use a SmartApp to turn off the thermostat if any window except my kitchen window opens.

As far as the vents, I thought most smart vents do not close too many of them in order to prevent that back-pressure issue on the furnace fan motor. I have an older house and they do not make any of them that fit my current vent openings. I am hoping that will be something in the future.

I love the reporting from the web site.

I don’t really use its scheduling function. I let SmartThings control sleep/away (with presence) and home. I used to wake up in the early morning cold even though the temp was what I wanted when I went to bed so I have a routine to kick up the heat a couple hours before I get up in the morning…now I sleep through the night until the alarm goes off.

WIth me doing a lot of Christmas shopping with Amazon, it, along with my dots, shows me when I have alerts from Amazon, which means that a shipment is coming or has came. I just need to get the alert from my echo dots or it.

I did a lot of research before deciding to purchase a thermostat and this is the one I picked. There were a lot of HVAC contractors that recommended it because of its flexibility with other systems. I would have liked more accessory terminals for a ventilator or dehumidifer but I could not see many typical users having all 3 devices.

Anyway, food for though.

[Russell_Seward]

First, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience. It’s much appreciated.

My A/C / furnace is what they call a packaged unit. Both the A/C and heat are in a single unit outside (mine is on the roof), which is common in West Texas / Southern New Mexico. I hadn’t considered looking into the possibility that the unit might have additional features that weren’t activated when installed (about 12 years ago). I might look into that.
I considered running new cabling between the thermostat and the unit as I believe its a single conduit run between the two, but I have everything I need for Ecobee to work with basic operations now. I figure my unit will need to be replaced in the next 8 to 10 years, so I’ll defiantly be looking for a unit with multiple stages, when the time comes.

I realize that the temp sensors at most of the doors/windows will not represent the actual temp or the room, but I was hoping to utilize temp sensors in the SmartThings motion sensors, and I have at least one door (between the garage and home) that represents the actual room temp pretty accurately.

I too have an older home, with vent sizes that are not supported by smart vent manufactures at this time. I have a hard time finding regular vents.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to getting this thermostat installed and hoping it will improve the comfort of my home. Any energy savings would be “icing on the cake”.

[Russell_Seward]

Got the Ecobee 4 installed this past Friday evening (Dec. 8th). I’ve only been using it for a few days, and still playing with the sensor placement and settings, but I definitely feel like I made the right decision.
Thank you all for your recommendations!

I really like how the room sensors are selectable based on the comfort settings, but I wish they were also selectable based on the heat and cool settings. For example, there are sensors I may want to participate in a comfort setting during the winter, but not during the summer or visa-versa.

I also wish the app and thermostat would show the current comfort setting on the main screen. The only place I’ve found that shows which comfort setting is currently in use, is the Ecobee web portal.

There are other little things here and there that I don’t necessarily care for, but it’s obvious that this is a very well thought out product, that’s designed to be as simple as possible, while still providing state-of-the-art automation and smart features.

Although I don’t have any experience with other wifi or smart thermostat offerings. Based on what I know, I think this has to be the best, most well thought out and thorough smart thermostat available.

Thanks again for your recommendations!