Yes, that is what I see. Once I add the target device and the Association Group 2, what is next? I am a newbie with a total of 5 days experience and would like to understand the other settings and how to update, when necessary. Do you have some material you could share that would educate me? Also, if there are two or three target devices, do I need to input anything other than each of the device network ID’s under the Asdociation Group Members? For example my device ID’S are 15 and 14 for the accessory switches with the universal switch ID being 13. How would I type this in under the Association Group Members?
When you find a link to github, there will normally be a code file there, which is the groovy file that you copied into your own account, and a read.me file, which will have the instructions for how to use that code.
In this case:
When you follow the instructions there for setting associations, it tells you that you can list multiple group members, separated by a “,“. These are your multiple targets.
Then in step four, it says:
Tap Done . The change will now be synced with the device, when complete, the Sync tile should turn green.
In the IDE, you should see the old members and the new members displayed:
There are also some troubleshooting steps if you need them.
But basically if you just open the read.me for the tweaker, read the instructions there, and follow them, you should be all set.
Thanks Again, you have been so very helpful. Because I am using the new SmartThings App the Main Screen that I see does not have the same appearance that is in codersaur’s initial post. The view I see is the same as the view that Nathan Curtis had attached in his response to me.
I went back and re-read a previous post from Michael Chance Jr. that you had referenced in one your notes to me. He had been using the same Eaton Switches and his situation was very similar to mine. In one of his responses, he discussed how he got his switches working in the note below.
So I got my stuff to work. @JDRoberts, thank you for all your explanations. I just had to read through a few of your posts to get it figured out.
@And238 I have the same switches as you and this is what I did.
excluded them both from my hub and added them back
find device ID of 9601 (in my case 2a)
change device handler of 9617 to tweaker
change group to 2
add my device ID of 2a to group members (note, I just added the ID for the 9601 switch and not the 9617 switch)
change handler of 9617 back to “Z-Wave Device”
rejoice loudly as my switches now work
One additional note: If the accessory is off and the master is on, I have to press the accessory twice. I am not sure if this can be corrected. I think what is happening is that the master is not updating the accessory with its status. Does anyone know how to change this?
Is this the approach I should take to get my identical Eaton switches to work?
You use the tweaker to associate a target, or multiple targets, to a single trigger. The association is saved in the firmware of the trigger device.
If you want to associate that same target device with two different trigger Devices in a four-way set up, you will need to use the tweaker twice, once for each trigger device.
Let’s back up a step and maybe it will make it easier to understand. All that Z wave direct association does is give a trigger device permission to talk directly to a target device without telling the hub about it. Literally that’s all there is to it.
The target device doesn’t even have to know that the command is coming from the trigger instead of the hub. Since it’s coming over the network, the target device is going to accept it.
But direct association gives the trigger permission to send a command straight to the target without going through the hub. That’s why direct association will work even if the hub itself is off-line.
So, knowing that, what is the tweaker for?
When working with associations, the tweaker lets us tell the trigger device Which targets it has permission to talk directly to. Those targets are all considered to be one “group“ If the trigger is going to send them the same message at the same time.
It is possible for a trigger to have multiple association groups, but those are usually sensors where they will, for example, send a tamper alert to one target device and a movement detected alert to a different target device.
If you had a light switch that was designed by the manufacturer to use double tap and triple tap differently, it might use two different association groups for that. But most of the time a zwave plus device will use association group one for some special “lifeline“ communications with the hub and association group two for its usual targets. The user manual for the trigger device should tell you what association groups to use for what purposes.
Example 1: One Trigger, Multiple Targets
So let’s say I have a Z wave switch at the top of the stairs which is the trigger. I want it to send a basic Z wave command (“basic” has a specific meaning in this context) to zwave switch in the living room, a zwave switch in the entryway, and a Z wave switch in the dining room. These are the three areas at the base of the stairs. Each is on a different circuit. But I want to be able to Press one switch at the top of the stairs, my trigger switch, and have all three switches at the bottom of the stairs, my Group of targets, all come on at the same time. Or All go off at the same time.
Let’s say the network IDs are as follows: the entryway is device 003, The living room is device 007, and the dining room is device 01A.
So I am going to use the tweaker to tell the trigger device to put devices 003, 007, and 01A into its group 2. That’s it, that’s all there is to it. A single trigger is directly associated with one or more targets.
Example 2: One Target, Multiple Triggers
If you want to have multiple triggers for the same target, you just use the tweaker separately for each trigger device.
So now suppose that the living room from example 1 is a big room and it has both the original master switch, device 007, and another accessory switch over on the far wall, which happens to be device 008.
OK, I need to tell that other accessory switch, device 008, that it has permission to talk directly to the living room master switch, device 007, without going through the hub.
So I’m going to use the tweaker again, starting from the beginning. I will use the IDE to switch the DTH for device 008 to be the tweaker.
I will go into the app and go to the details page for device 008 and I will add device 007 to its group 2 to create the direct association that will be saved in the firmware for device 008.
Now when you physically turn on the accessory switch in the living room, device 008, the master switch in the living room, device 007, will also turn on and the light fixture will turn on.
I hope that makes things clearer. Just remember that direct associations are stored in the trigger device itself and tell it which other devices it has permission to send commands directly to without going through the hub. That’s really all there is to it.
Sorry I am not available for a call - but I’ll still help as I can. But I don’t think it’ll be necessary.
What you’re seeing is a difference in the old Smartthings app (we lovingly refer to as ‘Classic’ and the new Smartthings app (I not so lovingly refer to as NewApp) As a newbie you jumped in right in the middle of a transition between platforms (Yay fun!)
Classic allowed full customization of the UI. You can tell Classic apart from New by the big blue/green blocky headers and gray on white icons. Newapp will ultimately allow these customizations - but it’s simply not there yet. So the customizations that make that ‘main’ page show up - just simply are not possible yet. At the rate SmartThings is progressing, with those features my best guess (I don’t have insider knowledge, just 25 years in IT and most of those in enterprise commercial product support) to UI customization parity is sometime late this year - but there’s other technical considerations as well I won’t bore you with…
For your purposes - assume the UI you’re seeing there (with the blue box at the top) is Classic UI and will NOT be available to you anytime soon. When you see someone ask ‘Has this been updated for Newapp?’ or ‘When will this work with NewApp?’ This is exactly what they’re asking…
But, the settings section still works for the Tweaker - and for some cases is the only way to access these settings unless a developer has written a custom device handler that exposes them. That’s why Tweaker still exists - albeit in it’s limited form.
Your approach in the earlier post is sound - and should be all you need, and once you have your switch setup - you shouldn’t have to worry about the Tweaker anymore unless you need to edit the config later (replace a switch, etc.) And reading some of JD’s posts and the offshoots I don’t thin you’ll be able to do much with the doubletap on the remote switch to wake it up…
All of that to say - Honestly - I wouldn’t go down the rabbit hole for this - its an advanced configuration that not many people at all have to do - you just happened to run into it on your first project. I’ve been using ST for over 5 years and only ever needed it a half dozen times. It’s great for what it does - but it does need updates - and those are waiting on features the ST dev team hasn’t provided yet. There’s much better things to go down the rabbit hole on.
Once those features and abilities to deliver the custom buttons, etc. exist - I have no doubt someone will perform the edits and bring the tweaker UI into newapp…
This issue is discussed in the thread I already gave you the link to.
Thank You. I will try again. I think I was just trying to say that I am not able to scan and print (sync) as described in most of the text within the community on this subject because the Tweaker with the tiles that you can scan and print / sync do not show up due to the New App. Specifically, I am talking about the tiles including the General Scan, Associate Group Scan, Endpoints Scan, Parameters Scan, Sensor Scan, or any of the associated Print / Sync Tiles. I assumed there was some benefit to Scanning and Printing/Syncing associated with the tiles.
So it sounds like I can use the Tweaker on the Master Switch and or Accessory Switches for association. For some reason, I thought I had read that you always use the Tweaker only on the Accessory Switches. My Bad.
OK. So I should be able to add the Association Group ID of 2 and add the Network Device ID’s as Associate Group Members and should be good to go. Are there any other settings I need to update?
not for this scenario - if it works you’re good to go.
It can definitely get confusing.
To set up the basic three-way, you only use the tweaker on the accessory switch. That’s enough for many models.
Some models, like the one you have, may run into the problem of the accessory getting out of sync with the master, which is why you have to press it twice.
In that case, as discussed in the other thread I linked you to, you have two choices.
- try setting up an association in the other direction. This works with some models. It doesn’t work at all with other models. And with still other models it will put the devices into a loop. So you can try and see what happens.
- Use the “mirror“ option in the official smartlighting feature to have the accessory follow the master, thus keeping them in sync. Instructions for that are discussed in the other thread.
I took a look at this tweaker again as the topic came up in another thread. It seems it can still set assocations and parameters, and log some basic info at initialization, but the ability to scan available associations and parameters no longer works in the new app. Those actions were all controlled by tiles that only worked in classic app. It looks like the DTH would either have to be written to put those tile actions into preferences, or create custom capabilities with the CLI to create buttons/toggles to activate them. Anyone have any luck with a workaround to get those scan options working short of rewriting the whole DTH?
Everyone is looking at you @mwav3!
Lol, open mouth insert project. I’ll see what I can do.
Someone on Github mentioned using the simulator in the IDE to activate the tile actions, and it worked. I was able to do all the tile actions and scan association groups using the simulator. Condidering you wouldn’t use this DTH permanently anyway, this is an ideal solution versus rewriting the DTH.
Thank You for taking the time to look into this. I also had the New App vs the Classic App. After a lot of trial and error and working with the community, I was able to get the switches working. I stumbled across the tiles, as you said, by using the simulator in the IDE to activate the tile actions. However, I was not able to confirm the tiles worked correctly in the New App. From a switch standpoint I discovered I was only able to use the Eaton 9617 Accessory switches when I needed a 3 way switch. In all other connections, I had to use the Eaton 9601 Master Switch.
I found some limitations to the simulator workaround I posted above, where you couldn’t easily specify ranges for parameter and association group scanning that way.
So, I ended up doing an update on the tweaker that took all the old tile actions supported in the classic app, and added toggles for each one in the preferences screen to trigger them that way instead. I sent a PR to @zcapr17 but I don’t believe he is actively maintaining this code anymore. You can get the code that will now support all functions in the new smartthings app from my fork of the project at the link below:
When you are done using the tweaker and ready to go back to your default device handler, you should perform a cleanup by toggling the “Perform Clean Up” setting to remove unnecessary settings from sticking around in your device. I put the cleanup at the top of the preferences.
Al the commands triggered in testing - sometimes I did have to do it twice to get the logs to generate though. You should also make sure you change each one back to false before moving onto another one or any toggled “true” ones will run together. The cleanup will clear all these preferences back to “null” but you would have to leave the screen and come back to see the update.
Screenshots (these are all from the preferences settings):
Bless you, my son! LOL!
But seriously, that is an outstanding contribution to the community. Nice work.
@mwav3 I could tell the Force was strong in you young Jedi.
Wow, well done, thanks a million
Having some trouble pulling the modified device handler from your mwav3 GitHub repository SmartThings-1 directly using the IDE. When I update from repo, I don’t see anything in the New column. I can just copy the code, but I wanted to link it in case you’re actively working on it.