So, there’s currently no way to backup and restore the graph and all the SmartApps, right? No export/import or automation of deploy/config either?

My experience with ST so far has been that it’s a neat toy and works fairly well in an apartment or a small house, but if you try to scale it to a 6,000 sq. ft. house, it become quite unwieldy to deploy and manage.

Tell ya what… I’ll trade you my 2,500 sq. ft. home for your 6,000 sq ft home! :smile:

On a serious note, you may have to get a second hub, depending on walls or other factors that’s pretty spread out. If you use a number of z-wave devices like switches and outlets you’ll probably be okay there as they’ll repeat through the network, but Zigbee repeaters are less common. Motion Sensors (if plugged in) or the SmartThings outlet (I think the new one is Zigbee and a repeater) would be your best bet there.

As far as I know, there is not back, restore, import/export options at all, but on the other hand it’s all cloud based so all your settings are stored there, not on any of your devices (phone, tablet, etc). You can switch to a new phone (which I did about 2 months ago) and everything within the app will be there just like on your old one.

I am interested in the specific problems you are experiencing in the larger home. I doubt that it is a range issue - at least one that cannot easily solved without a second SmartThings Hub. What else besides size of space is significantly different from your apartment “trials”? More Z-Wave switches, different devices, etc.

Ben, no, it’s not the range, you’re right. It’s very simply the sheer number of devices, smartapps and their combinations. I have 30+ window and door sensors, 50+ switches, 50+ light bulbs, and so on and so forth. The UI becomes cluttered with a million identical icons. And if anything breaks: 1) debugging it is a nightmare, 2) fixing it sometimes involves removing the apps and devices and re-adding everything back one by one. I understand there are a lot of limitations imposed by the hardware - you simply can’t batch-register all the window sensors at once, you have to walk around the house and do it one by one. But then configuring everything, adding the sensors to the relevant apps, etc. - that part could very easily be handled better. UI will most definitely be a challenge, but maybe start by adding the API for power users to take advantage of? I’m not a stranger to building, deploying and maintaining massive systems, so I wouldn’t mind hacking a solution myself, but this aspect of ST is simply not hackable.

I have 23 things and 29 apps installed and it is already a nightmare. Some apps in ‘my apps’, some in ‘convenience’… ‘SmartThings Labs’… etc. Can’t remember what was convenient and what was safety so got to look through them all, and then they are all in random order so gotta scroll through them all. Whoever thought this was acceptable file management must have been on crack at the time.

I’m only at 30 things, and it’s getting unmanageable. We need a web UI.


I have 55 things and loads of apps. Grouping by device type or location does help. I would like to be able to have the same thing in two groups. So a light in my Lights group, and the same light in my Kitchen group for example. I haven’t tried yet, not sure if this is possible.

I haven’t much used the shortcuts. Somehow for me conceptually I gravitate to rooms/zones or device types. On the other hand, once things and apps are customized to exactly how I want them, I almost never actually need to do anything manually on the phone. So the mess bothers me less and less as the automation gets tweaked just right.

I agree with everything said here… however, I will add that when something breaks, either via a software glitch or physical breaks and needs to be replaced, it can be a pain in the rear end having to go back through and figure out exactly what apps your using with that device. It helps a great deal now that you can actually see a list of the apps on the device screen itself, but it’s still a pain to redo everything.

Things don’t (fortunately) break down often, but they do fail on occasion. And when you have more than 130 items like @sudarkoff the possibility of one failing any given day goes up dramatically.

Well I will throw my hat into the ring as well. I have a smaller home, but plan to add many sensors etc around the various windows / doors and etc. I can already see that the interface as designed will become unwieldy very quickly. I think you guys need to start thinking more of usability as more devices are added. Tiles are great, but tend to also be limiting. I think you need to start looking at successful UI’s like the various Android Launchers. Take some design Cues from them, and implement this into your application. Allow us to group in folders in various ways. Allow us to assign actions to groups that we have created based on conditions.

Just a few thoughts