Any light switches for 2 wire that work direct with ST, no extra hub?

Although I have ST and I’ve got some smart lamps working fine, other people in house are still physically switching off the light switch at the wall and so then lose control via ST.

So is there any replacement light switches that work with 2 wire in UK (no neutral), that don’t need an extra hub? I don’t want another light switch seperate from my current either, I want a replacement really.

Thanks

There’s z-wave dimmer modules (fibaro etc) you can fit behind your switch if your back box is deep enough / or you can change it (you’ll probably have to change the actual switch / faceplate to a momentary /retractive type as well).

Or there’s a smart app on here that’ll let you use hue switches direct with ST without a hue hub.

I’ve not found a direct replacement so far.

I actually bought a Fibaro module… Years ago and never got around to trying/replacing. I think as not enough room and they looked complicated tbh.

In another house I had the v1 of LightWaveRF, those switches worked fine and easy to replace, can’t believe here in UK we still don’t have any working ones…

When you say hue switch so you mean this one?https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0748KLR39/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_odllCbH9PAWN5

That means other switch on the wall, probably beside the current and not really what I wanted, as imagine they’d then switch both off!?!

Yeah that’s the type i mean, they are battery powered. You can get adapters that fit over the old light switch (3d printed or injection moulded). You pop the little remote in the middle out and can still access the original switch.

The good point about using the fibaro or similar modules is you can use any bog standard dimable bulb. They look far more complicated to wire up than they are, but as with any mains voltage, if you aren’t 100% sure what you are doing, get a sparky to do it for you.

The whole HA revolution hasn’t really hit it big time over here, other countries have far more choice than we do.

Ok thanks, although handy not ideally want I’m wanting.

I remember another reason hadn’t fitted Fibaro, it needs to go on the ceiling rose, I think, as within the actual light switch is ok not the live feed, however whoever did this house they just plastered over everything when fitting spots and I don’t know where it is, and if did I don’t really have access.

i did see a video on youtube where a guy changed out his light switch for a momentary switch with a battery operated controller. He basically just choc blocked off the wires and didn’t use them, but i can’t find it now.

Surely there must be a permanent live feed going to the switch and a switched live going from the switch to lights? The fibaro dimmers only need 2 wires.

There are full on switches, but again they need deep back boxes and seem to need 3 wire

maybe have a read through this thread for some ideas.

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@R2D2

Normally yes the switches have to be wired. It is possible to use a wireless switch (with battery) which would have to send a signal either to a smart bulb like a Philips Hue bulb, or to a smart relay/dimmer module which is wired in to the lighting circuit e.g. in the ceiling void. So no it would almost certainly not be a standard momentary switch.

@AndiMack

Yes fitting a module like the Fibaro in/near the ceiling rose should mean you do not need a 3-wire link to the light switch - at least for on/off control. Fibaro Dimmer modules are designed to be usable on 2-wire circuits although for also providing dimmer control this might require the module to be in the switch back box. This still saves having to rewire all your lighting circuits.

I personally am planning to get all my light switches re-wired to have 3-way cables as part of a larger project. I am also currently leaning towards using Insteon micro modules rather than Fibaro modules.

Whilst currently Insteon have withdrawn their HomeKit gateway they claim they will be launching a new (better) one at some point, the currently available gateway does not support HomeKit but does support Alexa and Smartthings. Also Insteon unlike Fibaro also make plugin switches and dimmers suitable for desk lamps. As far as I can see you would use the same momentary switches and could even like Fibaro also create a pull-cord momentary switch for bathrooms. However unlike Fibaro there is the possibility of adding HomeKit support.

(Yes Fibaro make a HomeKit compatible relay aka on/off module but no dimmer module and it is HomeKit only and hence not compatible with Alexa or Smartthings as well.)

I would still overall prefer Lutron Caseta but there is no sign of that becoming available for Europe. :disappointed:

For those based in UK / Europe I found 2 x types ZIGBEE switches which do not require NEUTRAL wire and they are not dimmers , only on/off and work perfect with smarthings and or directly with phillips hue links below.

Tell me more!! Have you got any? Tempted to get one but are they all safe and rated for UK use etc?

If these can have no neutral then why don’t other more well known manufacturers do it?

Hi

I have both of them and they work like a charm directly with smarthings. How safe are they ? I have no clue. I was searching for them for months and to be honest from reading so many so called experts reviews on different forums claiming that z wave or zigbee device will never work without neutral wire I believed it that it was impossible to make it work. However I had a feeling and carried on searching until I came across these 2 switches so decided to give it a go considering possibility of loosing few quid if they didn’t work. I was nicely surprised how good they are !

Thanks so have you ordered the Amazon UK ones ok? I’m happy to try one and see suppose.

Do you have a photo of the install and wiring maybe please?

Do you need a separate handler for them, or so they install direct to ST?

Can you screenshot it in the app please?

Hi

I have ordered one from Amazon and one from Aliexpress , both work identically well only difference is the look of them. Once you add it to smartthings it will detect as a thing you just have to change device handler to ZIGBEE SWITCH and it works perfect ! I am using each of them in my kitchen with 6 led down lights. Everything works as it should.

The Amazon was asked if it was able to be used with ST and the seller answered and said no?

You have to take a leap of faith if you want to progress in your life lol
so I leave it to you as i am not here to convince anyone . I don’t usually share anything on here but since I saw so much fake experts expressing their fake knowlage that made me believe that its immposible. However these switches are prove that it can be done. One thing I want add that since I was using my led down lights with fibaro dimmer before I have a parallel fibaro bypass connected to one of the spotlight. It maight be or not necessary to have one

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No I believe you was just responding to what I’ve seen.

I like you are waiting and waiting for a UK with non neutral switch as for some reason seems too be difficult

Having took a leap of faith, I can confirm that daveboyy is correct. The single gang Yagusmart Zigbee Smart Wall Light Switch does indeed work with SmartThings, even thought the Amazon supplier said it would not.

I’m not sure why you thought anyone was saying that Z wave or zigbee can’t work without a neutral wire, as that used to be the standard until about 2014. Many models were made in that configuration from major manufacturers.

What changed was the switch to LED bulbs. For some complicated reasons which have to do with the fact that the physics is different, the non-neutral configuration did not work well with LEDs, although it worked fine with incandescents or halogens.

Since most consumers wanted to switch to LED‘s (and I’m just talking about dumb lamps here not smart bulbs), the home automation manufacturers switched to devices that would work well with those. Which meant either requiring a neutral or in some cases offering a bypass.

At the present time, there are well engineered micros from Aeotec, Fibaro, and qubino which don’t require a neutral. So again, I’m not sure where you would’ve read that you can’t do that. Many people do, including many in this community.

There haven’t been a lot of “all in one“ devices offered in this configuration since 2014, but that’s just because of popularity, not because they can’t be made. Perhaps the articles that you read were saying that the devices were not readily available, as that was definitely true for a couple of years.

As far as buying cheap devices with no safety certifications which offer a no neutral configuration, that’s not just a matter of potentially wasting a few quid. It’s introducing the possibility of burning down your house.

I personally only buy safety certified devices if they will be wired to the mains, but fire safety is a major issue for me as I am quadriparetic and would required assistance to evacuate the home in a fire emergency.

So in summary:

  1. It is certainly possible to design a no neutral switch for either Z wave or zigbee but it is easier to power these in a set up which will be using incandescent or halogen lamps, not LEDs.

  2. some major manufacturers such as Aeotec, Fibaro, and Qubino Offer no neutral required micros, but if you want to use these with LEDs you may also need a “bypass“ device to prevent flickering.

  1. some manufacturers for the budget market, particularly from China, offer inexpensive no neutral switches without safety certifications. You have to decide for yourself whether you want to use them. In general, they will work best with incandescents or halogens, but the product description will not usually mention that.

@R2d2

Hi JDroberts

In my post I was referring to switches only which would have capacity of z wave or zigbee protocol without neutral wire. We all know there are modules which do not require neutral wire like you mentioned, however I was not interested in those. There are several separate threads in which you find comments stating that it is impossible for switch to have zigbee or z wave functionality without neutral wire as they require constant steady current. In the terms of fire safety … I am sure if you have gone through your appliances , power supplies thoroughly in your house you would find some Chinese not certified ( or falsely certified by cheeky distributors in UK ) :wink: If you know what you are doing use your logic, common sense and electrical / technical knowledge to decern whether you want to use anything uncertified. Otherwise stay away from it. I found what i was looking for against misinformation out there and i am happy :slight_smile: Thank you for all of you who do find the time and share your knowledge to help other users overcoming their difficulties :pray:

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Great! Is there a differing with the 2 gang when you mention single gang works ok?

How do you add to ST? What device? Does it auto add or need a manual handler?

I may buy now then, do you still need a choke if using with LED lamps as mine are all non dimmable LED lamps.

Thanks

Not sure about 2 gang, but i assume they would work fine aswell. I have tried to remove bypass to see if it will work without it and it does ! I assume that certain bulbs or led lights might require bypass to allow current to power the switch. Switch adds to smarthings very easy as a “thing”. All you have to do is change the device handler to ZIGBEE SWITCH. below is a link to spotlights i use with this switch its been few days so far and all works really well.