Anyone used an Aspire RFWC5WS 5-Scene Controller?

Devices & Integrations Connected Things
1

I’m trying to use the Aspire 5-Scene Controller (http://amzn.com/B0053ZIS7O) to trigger various actions in my house. For example:

  • Have a single button to turn off all lights in the house at once
  • Have a button to dim the lights and turn on the TV
  • Have a button to turn on/off the HVAC system
  • etc

I’ve been able to successfully install and connect the controller to SmartThings, but then after some period of time, the device status turns to ‘INACTIVE’ and I do not receive any commands from it.

The device also does not seem to have any capabilities or states exposed, so I am not sure how to capture the button events via a SmartApp. It also doesn’t seem to be detected by the IFTTT app or any others that look for switches.

I did see this device mentioned in another forum post, but I’m not sure if it was successfully used. Mention is here: http://build.smartthings.com/forums/topic/the-smartbutton-x4/page/2/#post-611

Has anyone else used this device and had any luck with it? Any ideas how to subscribe to the events with a smart app?

2

@jamesdburgess

I don’t know for 100% certain, but I strongly suspect this is what is known as a “secondary” controller in the Zwave world. Secondary controllers are a bit of a odd duck because they aren’t designed to really talk directly with the main controller of the network. Instead they are sort of a auxiliary brain so to speak. They send commands to individual or groups of switches. Generally you pair your devices with the main controller, and then also pair them with the secondary controller. Now both controllers can send on/off/etc. commands to the switches.

From reading what some others have done, you should be able to still do this in the SmartThings world. For example, if I have three switches in three bedrooms all tied to SmartThings, I could conceivably tie all three switches to one of the button on this secondary controller, then I’d have the ability to send commands from either ST or the secondary controller:

SmartThings ----> on or off ----> Light switches
2nd Controller -----> on or off -----> Light switches

Here’s the very important part though: Note that communications does NOT go like this:

2nd Controller ----> SmartThings ----> on or off ----> Light switches.

Secondary controllers, as I mentioned above, are NOT designed to communicate back to the primary controller (in this case SmartThings). This limits them. The SmartThings hub never sees the button press on the secondary controller, and therefore can’t use that to determine if it should run a smartapp or not. This is a realy bummer because switches like this or the GE 45631 would be really nice to use.

One way to make use of them to run apps in a very “round-about” way is to have these buttons paired to a switch or outlet that isn’t used. Essentially put in an outlet or switch in the basement that doesn’t do anything and have this “paired” to one of the buttons on this device. Then you push the button here, it turns on the un-used outlet/switch… smartthings sees this switch turn on and then runs a program based on seeing that switch turn on. Messy… but it should work.

1 Like
3

@chrisb Thanks for that detailed explanation. I know this is an old thread, but this is the best info I’ve found yet on why it’s not so easy to get a scene controller working with ST.

Does anyone know if there’s been any improvement in the support of these types of scene controllers/remotes in the 10 months since? I really want to put an in-wall multi-button controller of some kind and have it trigger groups of lights I have setup in SmartThings.

4

Yes and no…

You can use some secondary controllers with ST. I have three Intermatic remotes that I use as secondary controllers. As I stated above they don’t talk directly with ST, but they can be paired with some of your devices within the ST network (Z-wave devices, not Zigbee). So, for example, my kids (who each have an Intermatic HA-09 in their rooms) can use the remote to turn various things on or off while ST can also control them.

But again… there is NO communication between these remotes and the ST Hub. Additionally it’s worth noting that these devices don’t even report to ST immediately when they are turned on via a remote. For example, I have a light switch in my living room that turns on a table lamp. I have a smart app that when this switch turns on it also turns on an outlet in the living room that has a second table lamp plugged into it. This way my switch controls both lamps even though they are plugged into different outlets.

However, when I turn on the switch with my HA-07 remote, the smart app does NOT see that the switch was turned on and therefore does NOT turn on the outlet. (Eventually SmartThings will poll the devices to check of any updates and will see that the switch is now on and will turn on the outlet, but that could be 5-10 minutes later.)

My understanding is the the GE remotes work in a similar way to these Intermediate.

On the other hand, AEON makes two remotes (a one-button and a four-button) that DO communicate directly with the ST Hub. So button presses on these remotes do report back to SmartThings and can be used for various things like SmartApps. I don’t have any of these myself, so I can’t report on how well they work. I know of some people who love them but I’ve heard of at least one person who hasn’t been able to get these working right.

5

I know this is years old… but wanted to know if you ever got this working… Switching from HomeSeer and have a 4 of these in my house. I am willing to write the code, but can’t capture any events in the log (same issues you stated.)

Thanks!

6

Check out the threads for the Enerwave 7 button that looks very similar. They have a working DeviceType and SmartApp combo for that by associating buttons with scenes that bounce back to ST. So the DeviceType makes it so ST can see the button presses and the SmartApp reads the button press events and triggers your desired action.

7

Scott I appreciate the response. I actually started out with the post you mentioned, unfortunately when I monitor the raw responses in the log I don’t see anything posting. Any ideas? I think once I see what the device is posting back to the hub I will be able to convert that into something helpful. Thanks again!

8

Any updates? I’m considering trying this myself.

9

There’s always a lot of confusion when it comes to Zwave multibutton controllers. That’s because there are actually several different kinds of controllers in Z wave, and they’re not rigorously defined.

The first thing to understand is that it really doesn’t make any difference what the device looks like on the outside. What matters is which Zwave command sets it supports and controls (that’s incoming and outgoing).

I could show you three identical looking devices. One would work perfectly with Smartthings. One would not work at all with Smartthings. And the third would work partially with Smartthings. And they would all pair as secondary controllers.

Fortunately every certified Z wave device has an official “conformance statement” posted at the Z wave alliance website. You can just go look this up and see exactly which command sets the device supports.

Cooper is a division of Eaton Wiring.

So let’s look at 3 devices: the Cooper RFWC5 scene control, the Enerwave SC7, and the minimote.

Cooper 5 button scene controller
Supports associations, but only controls scenes

Enerwave SC7
Supports and controls associations

Aeotec Minimote
Supports and controls associations

So…which of these things is not like the others? :wink:

Even though the SC7 and the minimote look very different, on the inside, they use the same command sets. That’s why they can both use the button controller smart app. The button controller smart app depends on the device being able to “control” Z wave associations. That’s how it sends information
back to the ST hub.

In contrast, even though the SC7 and the Cooper may look more similar, they use different commands sets. The Cooper uses scenes to communicate to other devices. Not associations. So you are not going to be able to use the button controller app with it, because it’s not going to send a message to the hub the way a device that controls association does.

Zwave devices that control associations are pretty easy to fit into the smart things architecture. The hub can be notified whenever a button is pressed on the device, and then that can be used to trigger events on other Smartthings-controlled devices, regardless of their protocol.

But a zwave device that does not control associations, and instead controls scenes, is going to communicate directly to other Zwave devices and not go through the hub. This is just a very different architecture.

In some cases, you may be able to use the scene controller as a parallel means of control, so that it can toggle other Zwave devices that also support scenes on and off, but the hub will not know that it has done so. In other cases, you won’t even be able to do this, because the scene controller expects to get the scene information from the primary controller (the smartthings hub) and that probably isn’t going to happen.

But in any case, you can’t assume that just because something has buttons that it will be able to be used as a “button controller” with Smartthings. For that to happen, it has to “control” associations, not just “support” them.

FWIW.

10

A post was merged into an existing topic: ZWN-SC7 Enerwave 7 Button Scene Controller